Alternative Brake Discs/Pads - Cupra

[DigitalSushi]

Just swapped my fronts to some brembo vented disks and EBC red pads.

Its now a real test for my neck muscles if you hit the anchors hard. Not noticed any noise under braking and the horrific rattle i had with the old pads is now gone. So i am more than happy with the results.

 

[Leon097]

Sounds great. I’ve been looking in to new pads and discs as well. I was thinking to get the Clubsport S discs for the front and “normal” Brembo discs for the rear.

Still didn’t decide which pads to use.

 

[Butty]

Have just switched the fronts to Vagbremtech hooked discs with mintex M1144. Now they've bedded in they seem to make a clunk noise over bumps. I thought I had a front suspension fault but can't find any other fault, so am presuming the pads are moving around - but how?
Otherwise very solid braking so far.

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes, you have just reminded me of these "hammer end" shim/springs bits, I'm sure that the Polo with 288mm front discs has that type of pad. I think that my plan is just to buy a of the SS clips that fit over the carriers for the rear pads - like VW Group used to provide on earlier rear disc braked Polos.

Anyone owning/running a VW Group car that has the normal Lucas rear callipers and cable handbrake, that is considering retro fitting the SS springs that VW Group used to fit to these rear brakes in the distant past and now seems to have stopped fitting, don't bother buying a set and fitting them as there is now not enough free space to fit them, I've finally round to trying to fit them as I was "freshening up" the appearance of the callipers (Gunmetal Grey is a bad choice - looks more like Battleship Grey!!), just a heads up for anyone planning to try doing that, that is all.

 

[SuperV8]

Anyone owning/running a VW Group car that has the normal Lucas rear callipers and cable handbrake, that is considering retro fitting the SS springs that VW Group used to fit to these rear brakes in the distant past and now seems to have stopped fitting, don't bother buying a set and fitting them as there is now not enough free space to fit them, I've finally round to trying to fit them as I was "freshening up" the appearance of the callipers (Gunmetal Grey is a bad choice - looks more like Battleship Grey!!), just a heads up for anyone planning to try doing that, that is all.

There are many versions of that Lucas/TRW rear brake - used by many manufactures, not just VAG.
As you have found out - if the caliper carrier wasn't designed for these stainless steel abutment clips they you can't retrofit as the pad to carrier interface is designed with close tolerances in mind.

You could 'potentially' find a caliper carrier of an other car which had these clips - and use that but personally I wouldn't bother, they don't negate the periodic cleaning/maintenance as the carrier still corrodes behind these clips.

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes, for me it was a case of trying to add in what was fitted in the past - and failed, the purpose of that posting was to let people know so that they did not try the same thing, as in the aftermarket that kit of bits is listed as being suitable for 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS and no doubt other cars.

Anyway, it was me that initially introduced this idea to this thread, so I felt the need to close it down with my findings, as hopefully would/will others who introduce similar "dead ducks".

 

[RUM4MO]

I am getting closer to buying or getting my older daughter to buy new pads for her 2019 Leon Cupra 290, but so far I've not been able to tie down any other brands than VW Group that exactly are same as what is currently on that car, one issue being the stainless steel shim fitted to the outer pad, while many of these maybe mainland Europe based parts dealers list many options, while the PR code being quoted is the same as that car, but when I drill down deeper they end "not suitable for your vehicle". The online parts listings say that 3Q0 698 451E is the correct part number for this model of 2WD Leon Cupra, but it has been suggested that the "E" version has been superseded but I don't know by what as there are quite a few versions used for other versions, ie 4WD and other cars, just to make it clear, this Leon Cupra does have an electric handbrake and vented rear discs. While most sellers quote that the displayed picture might not be representative of the correct part they will supply, not being able to find any quoted equivalent kits that do have a stainless steel shim on the outer pad does not fill me with confidence.
So any good actual suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. I can see this ending up me buying from a VW Group seller just to play safe, even ATE do not list the option with the shim on the outer pads in their webcat for aftermarket, and Jurid's webcat do not cover cars of this age yet!

 

[DigitalSushi]

I am getting closer to buying or getting my older daughter to buy new pads for her 2019 Leon Cupra 290, but so far I've not been able to tie down any other brands than VW Group that exactly are same as what is currently on that car, one issue being the stainless steel shim fitted to the outer pad, while many of these maybe mainland Europe based parts dealers list many options, while the PR code being quoted is the same as that car, but when I drill down deeper they end "not suitable for your vehicle". The online parts listings say that 3Q0 698 451E is the correct part number for this model of 2WD Leon Cupra, but it has been suggested that the "E" version has been superseded but I don't know by what as there are quite a few versions used for other versions, ie 4WD and other cars, just to make it clear, this Leon Cupra does have an electric handbrake and vented rear discs. While most sellers quote that the displayed picture might not be representative of the correct part they will supply, not being able to find any quoted equivalent kits that do have a stainless steel shim on the outer pad does not fill me with confidence.
So any good actual suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. I can see this ending up me buying from a VW Group seller just to play safe, even ATE do not list the option with the shim on the outer pads in their webcat for aftermarket, and Jurid's webcat do not cover cars of this age yet!

Like I said on mine I've just stuck ebc reds and they're much better than the factory fitted.

Theres a guy on here that will help you out for correct ones, I wasn't exactly sure of the right ones for mine but they sorted me out.

Yes they are more expensive than standard. But it's your daughters safety which I can imagine is priceless to you

 

[Scott.T]

Can anyone recommend rear disks that will match the cross drilled front Brembo.
Seen some on MTec site and some Performance Brembo cross drilled rears on EurocarParts but they seem to think they don't fit the Cupra but do an Audi (310mm)

 

[RUM4MO]

Like I said on mine I've just stuck ebc reds and they're much better than the factory fitted.

Theres a guy on here that will help you out for correct ones, I wasn't exactly sure of the right ones for mine but they sorted me out.

Yes they are more expensive than standard. But it's your daughters safety which I can imagine is priceless to you

The thing is, which Leon model are you referring to and its date of first registration?
The reason that I'm asking this is, at a certain point in the production run of Leon Cupras(at least), as @SuperV8 said earlier, VW Group found that they needed to add a stainless steel shim to the outer pads to minimise the possibility of the calliper/pad seizing, and this May 2019 Leon Cupra left the factory with these shims fitted to the outer pad - so I aim to accept that this improvement was needed and any disc pads I buy must be to that later design revision. As far as I have been able to make out, no aftermarket brake pad suppliers have taken that onboard yet - and that is my problem at the moment.

It could be that I could carefully ease the stainless steel shims from the original factory fitted rear brake pads, and fit them to an aftermarket brake pad that is near enough the same in all other aspects - but I might not and so as that car tends to be needed most of the time, my daughter needs to take the money hit for me buying VW Group parts this time, which is a shame as this car, when used mainly in town, has ended up eating its rear brake pads over 3 years and 14K miles, and will probably do the same with this next set of rear brake pads - from what I've read, this car is not unique in that respect!

 

[Slickric21]

I may be missing the point here and didn’t read the whole thread,

But I recently changed all the pads on my 2019 R ST to EBC Red.
(Much better than stock and zero dust)

All the EBC pads (front and rear) came with a metal shim

 

[RUM4MO]

I hope that I'm over thinking what I usually find is an easy thing to do, ie source "exactly same as" aftermarket brake pads, it could be that the 2019 Leon Cupra R ST has slightly different rear callipers and so pads than the normal Leon Cupra, but to date I have yet to get enough confidence in what aftermarket suppliers/providers is offering, normal thing with brake pads is, they come in a box with an integrity seal on them, once this seal is broken no one wants to take them back.

I've currently got no desire to change the pads on that car to EBC etc as I want to keep it standard as it is not my car and the use it gets does not warranty sticking "other" brake pads on it.

 

[Slickric21]

R ST has exactly the same rear calliper as the standard Cupra,Golf R,S3 of similar age.

 

[RUM4MO]

I may be missing the point here and didn’t read the whole thread,

But I recently changed all the pads on my 2019 R ST to EBC Red.
(Much better than stock and zero dust)

All the EBC pads (front and rear) came with a metal shim

When you mentioned "metal shim" does that mean that two of the rear pads came with an extra stainless steel shim clipped to the rear of them - as opposed to the "built in/on" anti squeal shims on all four pads?

Edit:- it is the flat extra shims shown in posting #7 - the lower pair of pads, which are the outer ones, that I'm worried about not finding fitted to any aftermarket pad kits that I end up buying - I do know the proper way to avoid this is just to buy from VW Group dealers, but I'd like to avoid doing that if possible.

 

[RUM4MO]

R ST has exactly the same rear calliper as the standard Cupra,Golf R,S3 of similar age.

Yes, I agree there after checking.

 

[SuperV8]

I am getting closer to buying or getting my older daughter to buy new pads for her 2019 Leon Cupra 290, but so far I've not been able to tie down any other brands than VW Group that exactly are same as what is currently on that car, one issue being the stainless steel shim fitted to the outer pad, while many of these maybe mainland Europe based parts dealers list many options, while the PR code being quoted is the same as that car, but when I drill down deeper they end "not suitable for your vehicle". The online parts listings say that 3Q0 698 451E is the correct part number for this model of 2WD Leon Cupra, but it has been suggested that the "E" version has been superseded but I don't know by what as there are quite a few versions used for other versions, ie 4WD and other cars, just to make it clear, this Leon Cupra does have an electric handbrake and vented rear discs. While most sellers quote that the displayed picture might not be representative of the correct part they will supply, not being able to find any quoted equivalent kits that do have a stainless steel shim on the outer pad does not fill me with confidence.
So any good actual suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. I can see this ending up me buying from a VW Group seller just to play safe, even ATE do not list the option with the shim on the outer pads in their webcat for aftermarket, and Jurid's webcat do not cover cars of this age yet!

Looking at a Leon for PR codes: PR- 1KJ,1KY
The rear OEM pad part numbers supersession is:
5Q0698451P >06-2017
3QF698451 06-2017 - 11-2017
3QF698451E 11-2017>

I can also see evidence of variants - 3QF698451N & 3QF698451F

There is a similar date range change on the caliper carrier part numbers - so I assume? you can't fit the addition stainless steel wrap around shim to the older pad if it doesn't already have one.


GA8135 is the older friction material, and looks like an NAO - (None Asbestos Organic - zero metal) these friction materials don't generally clean the rear discs very well leading to heavy corrosion.
I can see both Volvo and JLR have moved from GA8135 to GA9000/GA9005 & looks like VAG have done the same, which looks more like a usual European low metal friction formula, which cleans the discs better, and is also generally higher performance.
These OEM pads are available for <£50 so for me on a 2019 Cupra I would stick with the latest OEM parts.

Would be interesting to see which pads are on it currently?

5Q0698451P GA8135(4)FG friction code (ITT Galfer)

3QF698451 GA8135(4)FG friction code (ITT Galfer)

3Q0698451E GA9005FF friction code (ITT Galfer)

3QF698451N GA9005FF friction code (ITT Galfer)

3QF698451F FER139-60(A) friction material (Ferodo) - looks like a VAG service level part - not an OEM

If you can read Russian: This TPI is highlighting the friction codes I mention above - but I have no idea which one they are saying guessing they are saying 9005 is the newer friction code

 

[RUM4MO]

@SuperV8, thanks for putting all that investigative effort, your posting has caused me to halt considering buying ATE 13.0460-7294.2 just in case it really does not have that SS shim on the outer pads - and it can't accommodate me fitting the shims from the factory fitted pads.

I have approached my usual online VW Group parts supplier for a price for what I could see from online parts listings, as the correct pad kit, which is still listed as 3Q0 698 451E and he reckons that that is a very old part number, and it has been superseded - but he didn't say what the latest correct part number was, also, as he tends to trim a bit off the prices, and so to compete with VW Group main dealers, he has quoted a price of £75 inc VAT, so with P&P of £6 that makes it £81 for me to buy - which is really why I'm looking, in this case, for any possible alternatives, both the suggestion that the part number that I've suggested is out of date and the final cost is a bit higher than I'd expected when buying "at discount" - in all the years that I've used a couple of online VW Group parts listings, I've always found that they were up to date part number wise - except now.

It is good to hear that maybe VW Group have changed the friction material and that should improve life for the rear discs.

Maybe time to give up on trying to get a better deal/product and buy locally from my SEAT dealership.

 

[SuperV8]

@SuperV8, thanks for putting all that investigative effort, your posting has caused me to halt considering buying ATE 13.0460-7294.2 just in case it really does not have that SS shim on the outer pads - and it can't accommodate me fitting the shims from the factory fitted pads.

I have approached my usual online VW Group parts supplier for a price for what I could see from online parts listings, as the correct pad kit, which is still listed as 3Q0 698 451E and he reckons that that is a very old part number, and it has been superseded - but he didn't say what the latest correct part number was, also, as he tends to trim a bit off the prices, and so to compete with VW Group main dealers, he has quoted a price of £75 inc VAT, so with P&P of £6 that makes it £81 for me to buy - which is really why I'm looking, in this case, for any possible alternatives, both the suggestion that the part number that I've suggested is out of date and the final cost is a bit higher than I'd expected when buying "at discount" - in all the years that I've used a couple of online VW Group parts listings, I've always found that they were up to date part number wise - except now.

It is good to hear that maybe VW Group have changed the friction material and that should improve life for the rear discs.

Maybe time to give up on trying to get a better deal/product and buy locally from my SEAT dealership.

3Q0698451E superseded to 3Q0698451N but as you can see from my photos they look rather similar with the same friction material and SS shim.
Just some additional hard marking code for sale into other countries.
I would google/ebay the OE numbers and you can find genuine parts often from genuine dealers, many of these OEM pads are <£50 inc shipping.

If the car has the SS shims on the outboard pads - you'll be able to see it through the wheel.
Those ATE pads are reasonable aftermarket pads - but by the time you add shipping they'll be the same price as the genuine OEM pads.

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes this car definitely has SS shims on the outer pads and PR code 1KY.

I have tried Googe and ebay searches using 3Q0 698 451E and found prices up to £195 being asked, at this stage I'd rather aim to buy a version that has the later friction material as rear discs in general do tend to end up getting nasty looking.

I have spotted someone selling the "N" version online at a good price, if they are genuine VW Group parts, but from what you have written they will probably just be the "E" version with more/different markings for a larger sales market and still have the older friction material.

 

[RUM4MO]

Well, I've just gone back to a saved ebay search which was for the "N" variant and looking at the pictures, the friction material is GA9005FF, so, as long as these parts are genuine, they should be okay, they have now been bought!