Conquering Cupra & Golf GTI with 1.4TSI

[KXL]

If @KilJaeden98 wants to tune (or 'pop' the engine) the hell out of the 1.4 engine let it be. As mentioned, it's a project he wants to do. We can only advise on our opinions (good and bad) and maybe experience on tuning (myself I have none, so I don't comment). I look forward to what dyno figures you can pull, accleration times and perhaps half way through your modifications and perhaps after it's complete. Oh one more thing, if you want to keep up with them Cupra's and GTi in the corners, you may need to change the torsion beam rears to independents (not sure if this is possible easily, or just changing rear shocks would help). You did say 'keep up' right, and not overtake/out accelerate..Perhaps I missed it, but i never got whether this 1.4 was the 1.4 125 or the 1.4 150 ACT.

 

[Cuprabenwytm]

Once I get it to 300HP, I'd really like to meet you in person and prove you and your bought cupra (or whathever you drive) wrong.

By the time you have got 300 ponies out your 1. 4 I will have sold the cup lol

 

[Mr Pig]

None of this makes much sense, which makes me question whether or not the OP knows what he's doing.

He says he wants to build a sleeper but he's starting with an FR, which is already a mildly sporty car which a lot of people chip and modify. And he's deliberately starting with a lower power and spec version of the FR, rather than the visually identical 184. So it'll will cost him thousands of pounds to get his 1.4 up to the performance of the identical looking 184! How is that a sleeper?

The fact that he does not seem to grasp the depth of gulf between the 1.4 FR and a 300bhp Cupra really makes me question his ability to do this. My prediction is that, if he keeps posting and goes for it, we'll hear about a few early mods, maybe with inflated claims about the performance he's getting. Then he'll disappear. Because either he'll realise it's costing him a fortune to build a mongrel of a car he'll never be able to sell or the car will be sitting on the drive with a tarp over the blown engine.

Yeah, so call me cynical but, sound about right to you?

 

[SteveW]

Back in the early 2000s I had a friend who had an 8v 2ltr Astra GTE that he modified himself.

He knew that he'd never get the gains you could get from the 150BHP 20XE 16v Astra GTE and modifying that particular engine, but that wasn't the point. He enjoyed doing the work (porting the head etc with a dremel! and various other bits and bobs, a lot of trial and error and throwing wrecked heads away etc) and managed to get a genuine 165ish BHP from an engine that started with 130BHP.

A lot of people at the time were swapping out their GTE engines for Cavalier/Calibra Turbo engines and modifying them to around 260-280BHP without too much work - but he wanted to be different.

If it had been me, I'd have just done the engine swap because I'm inherently lazy

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all kinda know it's a bit of a waste of time/money - but sometimes people do stuff like this purely "because they can".

Then again you get the chancers that buy a 1ltr car and expect to make massive gains in performance from an induction kit and an exhaust

 

[queen]

I had a stage 3 ibiza cupra (2010) ~300bhp. I now have a stage 1 leon cupra (2020) ~380bhp.
The ibiza was fast. Faster than a stock Leon Cupra and so fun to drive. Keep in mind that it was less than 1200kg, my leon is more than 1400kg.
I spent about 8.000 euro and modded pretty much everything, hybrid turbo, brakes, suspension, wheels, tires you name it, stock internals though. That time you could get pretty much the same level of power with half the money if you went for universal parts and cheap brands.
Right now with 800 spent on my stage 1 leon it pulls an easy bus length on that same ibiza. So you can see whether it's worth it or not.
To each their own and whatever you decide make sure it makes you happy and good luck with your project!

 

[xyz]

Once I get it to 300HP, I'd really like to meet you in person and prove you and your bought cupra (or whathever you drive) wrong.

Good luck with that. My Golf R can keep an AMG Merc honest so a 1.4 Ibiza won’t be a problem. Small capacity engine and front wheel drive - you’re on to a loser from the start but each to their own.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[KilJaeden98]

You didn't mention a GTi did you? A Cupra and a GTi are not the same thing. A GTi only has 30bhp more than the fastest 1.4 tsi but even then it still has bigger brakes and independent rear suspension.

And I see you've got for 'conquering' to 'keeping pace'? ;0) You're not going to keep up with a Cupra never mind conquering it. If you want a sleeper, why not at least start with the 180hp FR? It looks identical to the 1.4 but you've got a bigger engine and the independent rear end. Or why not start with a 135hp 20L SE, maybe even an estate? If you're going to change the suspension anyway and you've got the bigger engine and it's more of a sleeper?

I was thinking about swaping engine for a bigger one but thats not what I really want. I want to build a coffee grinder to at least keep pace with the "big ones". I'm not going to race them on the track, I was thinking more of drag races. From red light at the crossroads and parking lots more like for fun than real racing. All though it's still going to be my daily car.

I see all you commenting why dont you put a bigger engine in. That is the charm of what I'm trying to do. The same thing like that guy with his 1.4L 2012 ibiza with 380HP. Only that I'm stopping at around 300HP. I got all sorts of advices and now I know what to do so thank you all for that! Much appreciated.

Also I will have to wait with the upgrades since here in Slovenia the coronavirus is threatening my job. I can live a few months without job because I have money saved for the car upgrades. I hope I can get the upgrades done in the next 2 years.

 

[KilJaeden98]

If @KilJaeden98 wants to tune (or 'pop' the engine) the hell out of the 1.4 engine let it be. As mentioned, it's a project he wants to do. We can only advise on our opinions (good and bad) and maybe experience on tuning (myself I have none, so I don't comment). I look forward to what dyno figures you can pull, accleration times and perhaps half way through your modifications and perhaps after it's complete. Oh one more thing, if you want to keep up with them Cupra's and GTi in the corners, you may need to change the torsion beam rears to independents (not sure if this is possible easily, or just changing rear shocks would help). You did say 'keep up' right, and not overtake/out accelerate..Perhaps I missed it, but i never got whether this 1.4 was the 1.4 125 or the 1.4 150 ACT.

Thanks man, I appreciate your reply! Same as you I was thinking of independent rear suspension but I dont know if that is even possible. I have to do a research on that. But because I don't need it to be superior in cornering I'm cutting it out of the upgrade list. The thing that really disturbes me about this torsion beam rear is that I need to find special exhaust system (cat-back) for it. I wanted to buy milltek for cupra but it doesn't fit because of that...

Also, the engine is 1.4L 150 ACT, but I'm disabling the ACT and Start-Stop once I start fitting performance parts on it.

 

[KilJaeden98]

None of this makes much sense, which makes me question whether or not the OP knows what he's doing.

He says he wants to build a sleeper but he's starting with an FR, which is already a mildly sporty car which a lot of people chip and modify. And he's deliberately starting with a lower power and spec version of the FR, rather than the visually identical 184. So it'll will cost him thousands of pounds to get his 1.4 up to the performance of the identical looking 184! How is that a sleeper?

The fact that he does not seem to grasp the depth of gulf between the 1.4 FR and a 300bhp Cupra really makes me question his ability to do this. My prediction is that, if he keeps posting and goes for it, we'll hear about a few early mods, maybe with inflated claims about the performance he's getting. Then he'll disappear. Because either he'll realise it's costing him a fortune to build a mongrel of a car he'll never be able to sell or the car will be sitting on the drive with a tarp over the blown engine.

Yeah, so call me cynical but, sound about right to you?

I respect everything you say, it might happen either way you said but for now, I'm open for every advice I can get. I hope none of the bad scenarios happen but you know, life is a b*tch.

I realise the difference between a real cupra and my 1.4L. I expect to lose against one but the feeling that he cant get far away from me is enough I won't be racing it on a racetrack (at least not if not finished entirely). And why would I lie about performance gains? How could I lie if I show you pictures of my dyno runs? I know people lie about that but please tell me how does that help you in life? You make yourself a bigger loser and prove other people that too. Then you get insecure and depressed about it and it all goes down. You jump of a building. The end. But I'm not that kind of a guy. I'm not here to prove anybody anything. I will try to conquer cupra and GTI as I said (if future gets brighter) and if i succeed I won't mock you, I'll just say "I told you I could do it". And nobody gets hurt.

P. S. I'm not going to sell it after I mod it no matter how much it costs.

 

[KilJaeden98]

I had a stage 3 ibiza cupra (2010) ~300bhp. I now have a stage 1 leon cupra (2020) ~380bhp.
The ibiza was fast. Faster than a stock Leon Cupra and so fun to drive. Keep in mind that it was less than 1200kg, my leon is more than 1400kg.
I spent about 8.000 euro and modded pretty much everything, hybrid turbo, brakes, suspension, wheels, tires you name it, stock internals though. That time you could get pretty much the same level of power with half the money if you went for universal parts and cheap brands.
Right now with 800 spent on my stage 1 leon it pulls an easy bus length on that same ibiza. So you can see whether it's worth it or not.
To each their own and whatever you decide make sure it makes you happy and good luck with your project!

Now think of this situation. You're in your cupra at a red light and a guy with stock looking leon comes to you and asks you for a drag. Of course you say yes because you think its going to be an easy one, so you put all you got on the ground to keep him as far behind as you can. The light turns green, you floor it, shift into second but the challenger car is still next to you. You slam it into the third gear and you start to pull off. You sure thing still win, but its been fun time for both of you. We both are suprised how long I sticked next to you and we both feel the adrenalin pumping. This is what im talking about here. I want to be that guy next to you. It doesn't matter if I lose, I want to HAVE FUN! I'm going to challenge two times stronger car if I want to, only to see how much faster he is. Than I thank them for a show and move on. I don't live my life to be at home in misery. I want to get as much as I can out of it.

I hope I didn't get you all sentimental now xD

 

[Mr Pig]

Now think of this situation. You're in your cupra at a red light and a guy with stock looking leon comes to you and asks you for a drag.

The weapon I'd choose for this game would be a 2.0L TDI SE. An estate, even better. The problem with the petrol 150 is that the front end is too light for traffic light escapes. Even with just 150 bhp it spins its wheels really easily. Getting traction will be a big problem with double the power. The diesel engine is a lot heavier so it puts its power down from a start much better.

Here in the UK the police the a very dim view of street racing. Things like that were quite common when I was young but you don't see it much today as if you get caught or crash they'll hammer you. It's a very dangerous game and not worth the risk.

I would like a sleeper but what I'd want would be a full-moo Cupra which looked like an SE. Not so I could race idiots but so I could enjoy the car without attracting the attention of thieves, cops or moron boy racers. Fake rust stickers, maybe steel wheels, make the car look like a dog so it was totally ignored.

 

[KXL]

Thanks man, I appreciate your reply! Same as you I was thinking of independent rear suspension but I dont know if that is even possible. I have to do a research on that. But because I don't need it to be superior in cornering I'm cutting it out of the upgrade list. The thing that really disturbes me about this torsion beam rear is that I need to find special exhaust system (cat-back) for it. I wanted to buy milltek for cupra but it doesn't fit because of that...

Also, the engine is 1.4L 150 ACT, but I'm disabling the ACT and Start-Stop once I start fitting performance parts on it.

Are you considering any visual upgrades? Eg...like the Seat Sports Skyling kit rear bumper with possibly Supersprint exhaust or similar? The only thing is, once you put this bumper and exhaust, perhaps it no longer will be as 'sleepy' as it looks anymore.

 

[KilJaeden98]

The weapon I'd choose for this game would be a 2.0L TDI SE. An estate, even better. The problem with the petrol 150 is that the front end is too light for traffic light escapes. Even with just 150 bhp it spins its wheels really easily. Getting traction will be a big problem with double the power. The diesel engine is a lot heavier so it puts its power down from a start much better.

Here in the UK the police the a very dim view of street racing. Things like that were quite common when I was young but you don't see it much today as if you get caught or crash they'll hammer you. It's a very dangerous game and not worth the risk.

I would like a sleeper but what I'd want would be a full-moo Cupra which looked like an SE. Not so I could race idiots but so I could enjoy the car without attracting the attention of thieves, cops or moron boy racers. Fake rust stickers, maybe steel wheels, make the car look like a dog so it was totally ignored.

I like the way you think! Maybe even a bit overreacting with the rust stickers though xD Anyhow, here in Slovenia its a lot more peaceful so the traffic lights runs aren't so dangerous. I'm not saying I'm going to do it every day or something, but it could occur a few times a year hehe

 

[KilJaeden98]

Are you considering any visual upgrades? Eg...like the Seat Sports Skyling kit rear bumper with possibly Supersprint exhaust or similar? The only thing is, once you put this bumper and exhaust, perhaps it no longer will be as 'sleepy' as it looks anymore.

View attachment 16827

I was thinking about this yes. In fact I have already layed my eyes on this rear bumper which looks similar to yours.

SEAT Leon 2013-2019 Rear Bumper Aerodynamic Kit | SEAT Direct Parts

SEAT Direct Parts | Rear Bumper - Aerodynamic Kit | 5F0071609| Genuine SEAT Parts & Accessories Delievered Straight To Your Door

www.seat.fish-bros-parts.co.uk

I was also thinking about if I could fit milltek catback but instead of milltek rear silencer I would've installed this.

SEAT Leon 2013-2019 Sports Exhaust Aerodynamic Kit

SEAT Direct Parts |SEAT Leon 2013-2019 Sports Exhaust Aerodynamic Kit| 5F0072000G| Genuine SEAT Parts & Accessories Delievered Straight To Your Door

www.seat.fish-bros-parts.co.uk

Im waiting for pictures of the specific part so I can see if we could fit it on in the first place or if there will be needed welds and other custom made pipes. There is still a lot of planing ahead of me before ordering the first parts...

 

[Mr Pig]

I like the way you think! Maybe even a bit overreacting with the rust stickers though xD Anyhow, here in Slovenia its a lot more peaceful so the traffic lights runs aren't so dangerous. I'm not saying I'm going to do it every day or something, but it could occur a few times a year hehe

I think it's a much better idea. buy a Cupra and dress it down so it looks like a pile of crap ordinary Leon. If you remove the Cupra bumpers, wheels ect you can store them and they'll be kept good ready to go back on when you sell the car. The flip side is that the ratty bumpers on the car can get scratched and damaged and you don't need to worry about it! In fact, if you put damaged bumpers on the car it would help the ratty look and they'll be dirt cheap to buy.

That would be a lot of fun. A Cupra that looked like a junk bog standard car.

Your current plan just makes no sense to me. You're now talking about fitting fancy bumpers etc, this is not a sleeper, and I really don't think you've thought the performance aspect though. I'll bring up a couple of specifics.

BMW used essentially the same pistons in multiple engines. 4, 6, 8 and even 12 cylinder engines and the pistons are interchangeable. However, although they fit, there were three different qualities of piston. The higher powered cars got the best quality pistons and the lower cars got ones which were cheaper made as there was no point in spending money on parts that are better than they need to be.

All manufacturers work this way. Even if the block and basic engine design is good for big power, like the Nissan SR20 or the Cosworth Ford put in the Sierra, you still need to upgrade a lot of other parts. The 1.4 TSi is built for 150 bhp and not just the the engine and ancillaries but the gearbox, transmission etc too. None of these parts are designed to take double that power. And they won't take it. For a while maybe but not for long.

Another aspect is cooling. More power equals burning more fuel equals generating more heat. The larger engine in the Cupra isn't just so it can burn more fuel but so that it can deal with the heat better. Bigger cooling channels, thicker metal and the whole rest of the cooling system is more powerful to deal with the extra heat the thing is going to generate. Bigger vents and ducts in the bumper, you could go on all day.

Basically, if you want a car that worries a Cupra, you're going to have to build a Cupra! If you simply up the power on a 1.4...it's going to break. Maybe not straight away but eventually, bits are going to start failing. The car will have cost a fortune to build but it'll spend more time on the drive than on the road til eventually something big inside the engine lets go and it's game over. One very expensive pile of scrap is what you'll own.

I'm not trying to be a downer here, I'm trying to stop you doing something stupid. Sure, loads of people will tell you to go for it but they're idiots as well. Throwing money at crap cars trying to turn them into super-cars is a game for the not very bright! Typically ends one of two ways. Car parked on the drive with failures too expensive to fix or, if it still runs, it runs like a dog and you can't give it away. I've seen it many times. Knew one guy who put thousands into his car until he basically ran out of money and it still wasn't right. Ended up selling it for a fraction of what he'd put into it and the next owner put thousands more into it! I had a guy mailing me every day begging me to buy his modded Focus ST as he could not sell it.

You can do what you're planning if you have no limit to your funds and capabilities. I know two people like that, it can be done, but if it's a daily driver and your money has a limit, honestly, don't even start it.

 

[pompeydave]

Totally agree with Mr Pig , as 99% of other replies have said just dont waste your money. Indeed on paper it's a cracking project to do , 100,s of hours labour I expect , but end product could be amazing but at HUGE cost.
If I had the time on my hands I would at least start with a 2.0 lump and go from there but I'm the type to buy the faster car in the 1st place and spend 5-700 on a decent map.

You are going to spend 1000's doing the car and you probably won't get anywhere near that back when you finish.

I don't think we are going to change your mind on the project though but please just give it one last think before starting.

 

[KilJaeden98]

I think it's a much better idea. buy a Cupra and dress it down so it looks like a pile of crap ordinary Leon. If you remove the Cupra bumpers, wheels ect you can store them and they'll be kept good ready to go back on when you sell the car. The flip side is that the ratty bumpers on the car can get scratched and damaged and you don't need to worry about it! In fact, if you put damaged bumpers on the car it would help the ratty look and they'll be dirt cheap to buy.

That would be a lot of fun. A Cupra that looked like a junk bog standard car.

Your current plan just makes no sense to me. You're now talking about fitting fancy bumpers etc, this is not a sleeper, and I really don't think you've thought the performance aspect though. I'll bring up a couple of specifics.

BMW used essentially the same pistons in multiple engines. 4, 6, 8 and even 12 cylinder engines and the pistons are interchangeable. However, although they fit, there were three different qualities of piston. The higher powered cars got the best quality pistons and the lower cars got ones which were cheaper made as there was no point in spending money on parts that are better than they need to be.

All manufacturers work this way. Even if the block and basic engine design is good for big power, like the Nissan SR20 or the Cosworth Ford put in the Sierra, you still need to upgrade a lot of other parts. The 1.4 TSi is built for 150 bhp and not just the the engine and ancillaries but the gearbox, transmission etc too. None of these parts are designed to take double that power. And they won't take it. For a while maybe but not for long.

Another aspect is cooling. More power equals burning more fuel equals generating more heat. The larger engine in the Cupra isn't just so it can burn more fuel but so that it can deal with the heat better. Bigger cooling channels, thicker metal and the whole rest of the cooling system is more powerful to deal with the extra heat the thing is going to generate. Bigger vents and ducts in the bumper, you could go on all day.

Basically, if you want a car that worries a Cupra, you're going to have to build a Cupra! If you simply up the power on a 1.4...it's going to break. Maybe not straight away but eventually, bits are going to start failing. The car will have cost a fortune to build but it'll spend more time on the drive than on the road til eventually something big inside the engine lets go and it's game over. One very expensive pile of scrap is what you'll own.

I'm not trying to be a downer here, I'm trying to stop you doing something stupid. Sure, loads of people will tell you to go for it but they're idiots as well. Throwing money at crap cars trying to turn them into super-cars is a game for the not very bright! Typically ends one of two ways. Car parked on the drive with failures too expensive to fix or, if it still runs, it runs like a dog and you can't give it away. I've seen it many times. Knew one guy who put thousands into his car until he basically ran out of money and it still wasn't right. Ended up selling it for a fraction of what he'd put into it and the next owner put thousands more into it! I had a guy mailing me every day begging me to buy his modded Focus ST as he could not sell it.

You can do what you're planning if you have no limit to your funds and capabilities. I know two people like that, it can be done, but if it's a daily driver and your money has a limit, honestly, don't even start it.

I know, I know... I'm thinking about this project a lot and currently my conclusions are getting the rear bumper, the exhaust for it and center pipe (deleting the two silencers in between). I know it'll make it far off a sleeper I wanted to build but I really fell in love with that look Then I'll keep looking for parts and think how to get the best out of the car.

 

[Mr Pig]

I know it'll make it far off a sleeper I wanted to build but I really fell in love with that look Then I'll keep looking for parts and think how to get the best out of the car.

At the end of the day, it's your car. And I respect your right to do whatever the heck you want to it. Sure, I'm trying to let you see the negatives but if you want to do something mad because, you just want to do something mad there is no law against that.

Have fun with your car and I hope it works out well whatever you decide to do.

 

[mcspook]

He's Building experience! Chill! When things won't run as expected, the hours and hours to the mechanic, the deceptions and the satisfaction of building something that maybe won't keep up even with a tuned 1.8 (sleeper), don't really matter, if he has the money to spend.
My advice is do whatever motivates you the most. Just put down the cost of fully tune your 1.4 first. My car is a 1.8 stage 2 270hp everything look stock even the exhaust sound and i spent total for the tune, DP, filter 1100€ and if a 1.4 is barely passing me i mostly laugh cause i will know the cost of tuning his car. But if a tdi looking leon with a 500hp cupra engine pass me like i'm stationary then i will be shocked. Cupra's are not so expensive to be humiliated by a 1.4 with double the price tuning it. If you catch a bmw m4 with your 1.4 then it starting to be fun!
The thing is what motivate you. If you want a sleeper car, buy a sleeper looking car as a project car, buy a big engine for it, and tune it. That's a project to get experience and learn. Plus when it breaks you still have your daily.