Downpipes and stage 2 options for MY19/GPF cars

[alper]

Based on some photos of the new exhaust piping of WLTP cars with the twin GPF's like the one attached I wonder whether the pre-WLTP aftermarket downpipes are compatible with the new cars. Essentially, whether the two downpipe versions (pre and post WLTP) feature the same length and connections or new downpipes must become available in order to go stage 2.

Even if the two versions are compatible, there's the question of the new exhaust gas sensors and what to do with them, apart from coding them out via software. Anyone been down that road yet?

 

[N8KOW]

Nope, I'm wanting to know this as well, if I can have the GPF mapped out then I'll be putting a BCS DP on there ready for Stage 3...

 

[juanfran_mr]

Hello!

I am in the same situation

I have a cupra 290 MY19 with JB4.

With map 1 I have no problems.

With the map 2 there are problems because create a plug in the exit of exhaust gases and that's why I need a downpipe to eliminate the catalyst and the gpf

 

[N8KOW]

Yeah there will be a solution soon to these PPFs

 

[alper]

Hello!

I am in the same situation

I have a cupra 290 MY19 with JB4.

With map 1 I have no problems.

With the map 2 there are problems because create a plug in the exit of exhaust gases and that's why I need a downpipe to eliminate the catalyst and the gpf

What kind of errors do you get? Map 2 is slightly more boost than Map 1 so if with Map 2 you are already maxing out the stock exhaust capabilities that's quite some flow restriction that the GPF's are causing, compared to pre-WLTP cars. I was able to run even more boost than Map 2 on a pre-WLTP car without any hardware mod.

 

[juanfran_mr]

What kind of errors do you get? Map 2 is slightly more boost than Map 1 so if with Map 2 you are already maxing out the stock exhaust capabilities that's quite some flow restriction that the GPF's are causing, compared to pre-WLTP cars. I was able to run even more boost than Map 2 on a pre-WLTP car without any hardware mod.

The accumulation of exhaust gases makes jump to map 4 and therefore I must modify map 2, increasing the value of auto shift boost redux up to 90 or 100

Or also use a map 6 with a power reduction in the high rpm zone

 

[r@d00]

Anyone in the UK with a Cupra 4Drive 2019 willing to help Milltek release a downpipe with GPFs delete?

They already released various versions for the Golf R which is equipped with the same DNUE engine as the Cupra ST 4Drive (HJS cat, Race cat, de-cat, all with GPFs delete):
http://millteksport.com/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=1630

I contacted them and as of yet they have not seen a 2019 Leon ST Cupra 4Drive model. They think the downpipe options they offer for the Mk7.5 Golf R or S3 could be compatible but they need to check the fitment to a Cupra and soon after they would be able to release a product.

If I would be closer I would go myself, but I am 2000 miles away...

 

[S4BiT]

Ive heard, that the GPF is fitted inside of the downpipe itself, along with the catalytic converter, downpipe itself looks different and is in different size from the specific place. And those two under the car are just resonators, replacing the one on the middle way of the exhaust on pre-GPF cars.

Didnt invent this story, but just heard it from one guy who was under the new Golf R...
Truth or not?!?

 

[N8KOW]

Unicorn have mapped a Golf 7.5R to Stage 2, and I've found a company thats gone Stage 3 in Germany with GPF cars (one an Ateca and the other something else - 480bhp)

 

[r@d00]

I wonder what downpipes they have used and if they are available to buy separately.

In fact the problem I face is for the Cupra ST 300 4Drive GPF, because for the hatchback it is easier to find something. I guess the demand for ST tuning is much lower than for the hatchback or the Golf R, this is why it's very hard to find a downpipe...

 

[Damo H]

I wonder what downpipes the have used and if they are available to buy separately.

In fact the problem I face is for the Cupra ST 300 4Drive GPF, because for the hatchback it is easier to find something. I guess the demand for ST tuning is much lower than for the hatchback or the Golf R, this is why it's very hard to find a downpipe...

Golf R has the same setup at the front as the ST 4 drive, so I’d be very surprised there wasn’t something for the ST peeps.

 

[r@d00]

The engine of the Golf R is the same (DNUE), so I suppose the initial part of the downpipe is the same, including the cat, but I'm not sure about the twin GPFs, which are already on the horizontal part under the car as we can see in the first post.

 

[Necc]

How´s going this thread? Anyone with PPF running stage 2?

 

[r@d00]

I'm running stage 2 from October and stage 3 from December 2019.

I went with Milltek, as they were the first to offer something for the Cupra ST 300 4Drive GPF (DNUE engine):
- In August 2019 they produced a full exhaust for the Golf R GPF (DNUE). The downpipe is the same as for Cupra ST 4Drive GPF, so I bought the downpipe for stage 2. The catback of the Golf R is of course different, so full exhaust was not an option.
- In December 2019 they advertised the full exhaust for Cupra ST 4Drive GPF, so I bought the catback as well and now I have the full Milltek exhaust installed. I like a lot more the sound with the Milltek catback compared to the OEM catback.

I think nowadays there are several other options, for example BCS PowerValve is highly regarded on the Golf R forum...

 

[Necc]

Thanks! Here we have several options in downpipes too, mainly handmade with a high quality. The problem is what you said, noise, they are too loud. Maybe adding a catback the sound can be better, have you got a link to listen it? power figures about your car running stage 2 and 3?

 

[r@d00]

I didn't record the sound unfortunately. But there were 2 Milltek catback versions, resonated and not, I took the resonated (quieter) version. For me there is plenty of sound with the resonated catback.

I had around 400 HP stage 2 and now 460 HP stage 3, with the quick spool TT V3. As I don't track the car, I think this is a very good option for me.

Best times with stage 3: 0-100 km/h in 3.24s with launch control, 100-200 km/h in 8.0s. For comparison, when the car was stock I got around 4.9s for 0-100km/h and 14s for 100-200km/h.

 

[alper]

I'm running stage 2 from October and stage 3 from December 2019.

I went with Milltek, as they were the first to offer something for the Cupra ST 300 4Drive GPF (DNUE engine):
- In August 2019 they produced a full exhaust for the Golf R GPF (DNUE). The downpipe is the same as for Cupra ST 4Drive GPF, so I bought the downpipe for stage 2. The catback of the Golf R is of course different, so full exhaust was not an option.
- In December 2019 they advertised the full exhaust for Cupra ST 4Drive GPF, so I bought the catback as well and now I have the full Milltek exhaust installed. I like a lot more the sound with the Milltek catback compared to the OEM catback.

I think nowadays there are several other options, for example BCS PowerValve is highly regarded on the Golf R forum...

That sounds very interesting. Apart from HGP in Germany who charge unreal prices and so their options are indifferent to most people I hadn't read about any stage 2 GPF car (even more stage 3) before, so excuse my questions:

Who did the tuning of the car for stage 2 and stage 3? Was it a local tuner? It seems none of the big international names like APR or Revo have released any option above Stage 1 for GPF cars yet...

Also, another question with GPF cars and stage 3 is the fueling limit since they no longer have port injection as the pre-GPF ones. I guess your tuner limited the output to 460bhp to avoid running into fueling issues? Did you upgrade the high pressure fuel pump too? Can you provide a short list of the engine mods?

Cheer

 

[r@d00]

I did go with one of the big tuners: MRC (the local branch).

I think the big tuners do not advertise stage 2 or stage 3 for GPF cars, but if you contact them they will probably do it. For example, if you look at MRC's Facebook page, you'll see that they also tune GPF cars.

I'm not sure the missing port injection affects stage 3 performance, I'm more worried about carbon build-up on the valves. From what I know port injection is used mainly at low RPMs and direct injection at high RPMs, so the impact should not be big if at all. I would also be interested to learn more about this subject.

The limit to 460 HP could be because we used the TT V3 turbo (less powerful but quicker spool compared to TT V4 or V5) or because I said from the beginning that I prefer a rather conservative mapping to minimize risks.

Mods on the car are:
- Racingline R600 full intake;
- Racingline oil management system;
- Wagner intercooler;
- TT V3 turbo + uprated sensors;
- Milltek 76mm full exhaust (with racing cat and resonated);
- LOBA HPFP;
- NGK R7438-9 spark plugs;
- Audi RS3 8V coils;
- StopTech BBK 355x32mm slotted;
- Neuspeed RSe10 lightweight rims (I downgraded from 19" to 18" for better road comfort);

 

[Necc]

What a great answer! Your car must be really fast and nice to drive with that setup.

About DI or MPI, the difference at those high power levels could be torque in medium RPMs, but I don't really know because I haven't seen any GPF car like this. Anyway, if it is FWD no problem because they are limited to avoid wheel spin, but AWD could take more advantage of it.

Carbon deposits could be the real issue as in other DI models but we must wait and see...

Did you notice better handling, braking, acceleration with 18"? Aside from comfort.. worth it?

 

[r@d00]

Thanks! Yes, I feel the car is very fast and I like it very much.


I changed the brakes and wheels at the same time and I noticed better braking and acceleration. The reason for better acceleration should be the reduction in unsprung mass, about 8 kg less for each front wheel (3 kg from the rim and 5 kg from the disc and caliper) and 3 kg less for each rear wheel (from the rim).


Better handling - difficult for me to assess, as I don't really drive at the limit and I don't have extensive experience with fast cars. The tires I use have the same width as the factory ones, I went from Conti 5P 235/35/19 to Michelin PS4 235/40/18.


Besides the weight reduction and comfort increase, a strong reason to change the rims was that stock rims did not accommodate the bigger brakes (the bigger width was the problem, not the height) and I didn't want to use spacers. Neuspeed rims are very good at clearing big brakes, but they are also pretty expensive...