MK3 Leon Cupra R - rumour and speculation

[dieselface]

While public quotes in the new model industry should be always taken with a pinch of salt this is probably the most definitive answer seat have ever gave regarding 4wd.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/87461/seat-eyes-renault-lap-record-with-lighter-leon-cupra

However, Schawe confirmed that he won't be turning to four-wheel drive: "We have considered it, sure, but even with more power front-wheel drive is lighter, cheaper and faster. If you have €6,000 more to spend you can always buy a Golf R."

Ps. I know they're talking about a stripped out version and don't mention R but guessing the ethos is - want 4wd go golf.

 

[simonali]

Well that's disappointing. Guess the VW head honchos don't want an AWD Leon treading on the toes of the Golf R/S3?

 

[robdf2]

While public quotes in the new model industry should be always taken with a pinch of salt this is probably the most definitive answer seat have ever gave regarding 4wd.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/87461/seat-eyes-renault-lap-record-with-lighter-leon-cupra

However, Schawe confirmed that he won't be turning to four-wheel drive: "We have considered it, sure, but even with more power front-wheel drive is lighter, cheaper and faster. If you have €6,000 more to spend you can always buy a Golf R."

Ps. I know they're talking about a stripped out version and don't mention R but guessing the ethos is - want 4wd go golf.

That's the Vag owners words I would imagine and not seat , as said before they would not let sales be taken away from there golf R models with a cheaper 4wd Leon.

 

[shnazzle]

Methinks this Leon be my last if there be no 4wd R Either that or I win the lottery and convert this one to AWD haha

 

[RacerBice]

Just for the record the golf R (........) not all the bells and whistles but a better car

And a hellofalot uglier too!!!!

 

[Al]

The correct and logical decision is that they don't go down the 4 wheel drive route in my opinion.

S3, R and Cupra R all running the same engine, turbo and chassis/drive configurations and all with different bodies/badges/specs and slightly different prices would be silly.

Besides, the Cupra isnt that much cheaper than a Golf R as is - a Cupra R with 4 wheel drive would surely not be offered as a side by side alternative to the Cupra with the price being higher than a Golf R. And with lease deals on Golf R's being so cheap, the Leon Cupra R 4 wheel drive would be doomed from the start due to SEAT's inability to retain value like its German cousins.

The comment on the Cupra being lighter and faster is interesting. My bet is that while it is of course lighter, it won't be faster 99% of the time in the UK, especially in winter assuming you drive on the public roads up to the speed limit. Take weight off the Cupra and add more power to create a Cupra R, and you will have a wheelspin machine in anything other than a bone dry day, something we don't get too often.

Golf R/S3 0-60 will be less on a wet day than the Cupra does on a dry day, and there will be no messy 2nd/3rd gear wheelspin to worry about after that either that.

 

[RacerBice]

Well.... By way of example, VAG offer the 1,4 T and 150 BHP diesel for Golf, A3, and Leon as well as Octavia. And the 1,8 T comes in any of the A3, Leon and Octavia guises. This trend runs through the entire VAG group offering of products. So VAG obviously don't differentiate very often its available drivetrains amongst group siblings. On that token; why is it so self-evident that they would protect S3 and Golf R sales by way of refusing SEAT to offer the Leon with 2,0T 300+ BHP and AWD, when they normally don't do that with other drivetrains? I'm not saying that the Cupra R will/should come, I'm rather only hesitating as to the logic of that particular argument.

 

[Al]

You are correct.

However, you have to consider the bigger picture than it affecting sales of the S3 and Golf R. For example would SEAT get a return on investment for developing their product and production line to accomodate a 4 wheel drive Cupra R which will sell in small numbers? Will such an expensive SEAT with such poor comparative residuals compete well with its German cousins available at a similar price and awesome lease deals?

It's not going to be as much about not having a four wheel drive Cupra R - it is about developing a solid sound business case for a product that will provide SEAT with a solid return on investment for producing it. The Cupra R has really only had different suspension/enginer previously.

4 wheel drive set up is quite a different set up. However it will be down to accountants whether or not it will happen, and sales of the Golf R and S3 will surely be considered because the Cupra R's biggest rivals will be the Golf R and S3 at the end of the day and that will all show on VAG's P&L

On the other hand, tune the Cupra, add a larger intercooler, a proper body kit that gets noticed, a bigger brakes, lighter wheels and other components, better lighter seats, uprated suspension and the imaginary yet to be released performance pack that was on the Leon Cupra that got under 8 minutes at Nurburgring, and an R badge for the various snobs that need that kind of thing, and you will have an undisputed front wheel drive lap record holder and a unique car in the VAG range that has more potential to sell. And it would be cheaper to produce than a 4 wheel drive car

 

[RacerBice]

Yeah, I'm fully with you on that, Al. Worth also remembering, though, is that e.g. Audi have in the past had some pretty offensive pricing strategies for S3 leading to minimum sales. And the branding effect of having a Cupra R in the range might similarly solidify returns for Seat on increased sales of lower spec Leon's and even other models too. You might remember P1's (i.e. Ferdinand Piëch, while Berndt Pischetsrieder was P2) ambitious and ever-lasting Phaëton project, which was and is nothing more than a brand promotion exercise. And a pretty non-profitable one too, looking merely at Phaëton sales..

 

[simonali]

Its not like it'll cost much to make anyway, they're all parts bin specials. That's how VAG makes so much money. Take one Golf R rolling chassis, add one Leon bodyshell, rejig the suspension a bit so it doesnt drive exactly like the Golf et voilà!

I can't see where else they can go, as a Cupra R has to have more power than the standard Cupra, but 300 (+?) horses and scrabble wheel drive doesn't work. I don't think a stripped out lightweight will sell either. If that was a good idea VW would've done it before.

 

[tuan21]

Have this car the same engine of the Mk2 CupraR? Or new generation TSI like new S3 and golf R ??

 

[AndrewJB]

Tsi

 

[colsy]

The correct and logical decision is that they don't go down the 4 wheel drive route in my opinion.

S3, R and Cupra R all running the same engine, turbo and chassis/drive configurations and all with different bodies/badges/specs and slightly different prices would be silly.

Besides, the Cupra isnt that much cheaper than a Golf R as is - a Cupra R with 4 wheel drive would surely not be offered as a side by side alternative to the Cupra with the price being higher than a Golf R. And with lease deals on Golf R's being so cheap, the Leon Cupra R 4 wheel drive would be doomed from the start due to SEAT's inability to retain value like its German cousins.

The comment on the Cupra being lighter and faster is interesting. My bet is that while it is of course lighter, it won't be faster 99% of the time in the UK, especially in winter assuming you drive on the public roads up to the speed limit. Take weight off the Cupra and add more power to create a Cupra R, and you will have a wheelspin machine in anything other than a bone dry day, something we don't get too often.

Golf R/S3 0-60 will be less on a wet day than the Cupra does on a dry day, and there will be no messy 2nd/3rd gear wheelspin to worry about after that either that.

I'm like 'shnazzle ' and have mentioned this the other week about a Cupra R 4wd .

I see where your coming from ,and perhaps you should get a job with Seat ...

But ,surely with this Mk3 doing so well at the moment ,especially with the Motoring Press,why won't Seat perhaps just do a limited number ,like RenaultSport do with their Meganes Trophy then ?? The Cupra has just beaten the Golf gti ,and S3 in A top 100 FAST ,FUN CARS Article ...in A/E . I can't even remember them mentioning the Golf R !!
Only a thought of course, I'm no expert ,but Seat's are always a bit cheaper than the S3 AND Golf R ..Couldn't it be done !

 

[simonali]

It's the BMW M135i that has ballsed it all up for VAG. I bet they wanted to price the R/S3 in the higher £30Ks, which would've left some room for extra models between them and the GTI/Cupra, but that car came along priced at around 30 grand and they were stuffed!

 

[Seastormer]

I'm like 'shnazzle ' and have mentioned this the other week about a Cupra R 4wd .

I see where your coming from ,and perhaps you should get a job with Seat ...

But ,surely with this Mk3 doing so well at the moment ,especially with the Motoring Press,why won't Seat perhaps just do a limited number ,like RenaultSport do with their Meganes Trophy then ?? The Cupra has just beaten the Golf gti ,and S3 in A top 100 FAST ,FUN CARS Article ...in A/E . I can't even remember them mentioning the Golf R !!
Only a thought of course, I'm no expert ,but Seat's are always a bit cheaper than the S3 AND Golf R ..Couldn't it be done !

Golf R managed position 23 ha ha.

 

[simonali]

Most of the other mags would be the other way round, to be honest.

 

[robdf2]

Golf R managed position 23 ha ha.

Based on what ?
Some ones view ? Does it really matter that much ?
Did you buy your Cupra because some magazine said it was a great car or did you have a drive of all the available cars in your price range ?
I would have probably bought the new Cupra if it was not for the diabolical customer service and experience I had with my mk2 , so I test drove similar based performance cars to make my desicion , not based on a magazine article.

 

[Seastormer]

Based on what ?
Some ones view ? Does it really matter that much ?
Did you buy your Cupra because some magazine said it was a great car or did you have a drive of all the available cars in your price range ?
I would have probably bought the new Cupra if it was not for the diabolical customer service and experience I had with my mk2 , so I test drove similar based performance cars to make my desicion , not based on a magazine article.

I've had 6 Biza's cos I like them and they don't cost a lot, I read mags to find out a broad range of opinions etc, and I had a demo 280 for the whole afternoon, why drive a Golf/Audi (basic same car) for more cash, I'll leave that to the badge snobs. My car is what I wanted, I can't help it if lots of other folk also like it.

Remember this is SEAT CUPRA NET, not Golf/Audi supporters club, if you you don't like SEATs, go elsewhere. Find a decent dealer, I have never had a problem with mine.

 

[robdf2]

I've had 6 Biza's cos I like them and they don't cost a lot, I read mags to find out a broad range of opinions etc, and I had a demo 280 for the whole afternoon, why drive a Golf/Audi (basic same car) for more cash, I'll leave that to the badge snobs. My car is what I wanted, I can't help it if lots of other folk also like it.

Remember this is SEAT CUPRA NET, not Golf/Audi supporters club, if you you don't like SEATs, go elsewhere. Find a decent dealer, I have never had a problem with mine.

Your right it is a seat forum , and I'm here because oh I drive a seat !
And it's my second , you misread my post I talked about seat customer services nothing about dealers !
It sounds like your lucky and have not experienced bad customer service , just hope your mk3 holds up!

And I'm no badge snob , otherwise I would not have owned any seats !
But if it's all you can afford then hay ho

 

[Blunteh]

I hope your last 2 lines are meant ironically