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MK3 Leon Cupra, what we know
- Thread starter Adman77
- Start date
Cupra feature for you here:
http://www.seatcupra.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1360&Itemid=1
Scott
http://www.seatcupra.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1360&Itemid=1
Scott
Interesting read on the front page there.
For me, £25k is too much for a Leon Cupra. However the idea of paying (a fair price) for add ons is a good one. A good example of an un-needed extra was leather on the MK2 Leon Cupra R although the shiny seat backs were cool.
I noticed when specifying a MK7 Golf GTi recently that adaptive suspension was an option. Another option was an additional 10PS and a mechanical limited slip diff.
I would hope these options, and uprated brakes were, as a minimum, optional on the MK3 Leon Cupra along with the DSG transmission which was never included with either the MK2 Leon Cupra or Cupra R.
On another note, I would doubt the Cupra will have any more power than the 265bhp mentioned in the article. Historically, the Leon Cupra has had more power than the Golf GTi but less than the S3/Cupra R. The use of the next gen K04 2.0T would allow this by use of ECU mapping and possible intercooler restrictions as per the MK2 Leon Cupra.
For me, DSG needs to be available for it to be a winner, as does a mechanical LSD and uprated brakes. It also needs to look a lot more exciting than the (frankly boring) FR.
What would be awesome is all wheel drive. However they are gonna keep that away from the Leon for fear of it taking away sales from the Golf R and S3 no doubt - although they are likely to be better buys if the Cupra is so close money wise as their residuals are better as a %.
Also, lets hope they haven't modified the Aero kit from the MK2 and have it ready to fit on to every last special edition MK3!
And when the Cupra R comes, lets hope they make it very different from the Cupra!
For me, £25k is too much for a Leon Cupra. However the idea of paying (a fair price) for add ons is a good one. A good example of an un-needed extra was leather on the MK2 Leon Cupra R although the shiny seat backs were cool.
I noticed when specifying a MK7 Golf GTi recently that adaptive suspension was an option. Another option was an additional 10PS and a mechanical limited slip diff.
I would hope these options, and uprated brakes were, as a minimum, optional on the MK3 Leon Cupra along with the DSG transmission which was never included with either the MK2 Leon Cupra or Cupra R.
On another note, I would doubt the Cupra will have any more power than the 265bhp mentioned in the article. Historically, the Leon Cupra has had more power than the Golf GTi but less than the S3/Cupra R. The use of the next gen K04 2.0T would allow this by use of ECU mapping and possible intercooler restrictions as per the MK2 Leon Cupra.
For me, DSG needs to be available for it to be a winner, as does a mechanical LSD and uprated brakes. It also needs to look a lot more exciting than the (frankly boring) FR.
What would be awesome is all wheel drive. However they are gonna keep that away from the Leon for fear of it taking away sales from the Golf R and S3 no doubt - although they are likely to be better buys if the Cupra is so close money wise as their residuals are better as a %.
Also, lets hope they haven't modified the Aero kit from the MK2 and have it ready to fit on to every last special edition MK3!
And when the Cupra R comes, lets hope they make it very different from the Cupra!
Very nice write up. I think they may launch the cupra in Barcelona and as said, hopefully the tech pack will be a standard fir with the LED headlights at a minimum.
Could not agree more Al. Seat need to keep the price down to gauge interest by making upgrade options where the additional cost comes in. For most like me, it's all about the power and less about the gadgets, I think the tech pack should be standard though with LED's.
I agree Al, £25k was too much for a Cupra R, and we told them so at the time and appeared to be proven right as the price inevitably fell in short order on the forecourts. At present there are around 300 registered Mk2 Cupra R's
I based my rough and ready analysis of costs by looking at the current MK3 5 door, and by ticking boxes its very easy to hit £24-£25k retail with a 1.8 FR. So if some of that models features are standard fit on a Cupra, then its not beyond the pale to think they are unlikely to be put in for free.
Prices are steadily rising across the group, the Golf is more, the Audi is more, I fully expect SEAT to try and slot it in below the Golf.
I like the idea of the new Golf's performance packs, and with SEAT seemingly adopting an option based retail menu structure, I can see them introducing something similar for the Cupra.
In the past I know with first hand correspondence with the marketing people it has been difficult for the folks at SEAT UK to convince the VW UK powers that be, to allow a wider modification of the products. Not that they haven't tried, many of the Mk2 Cupra R's enhancements were as a direct result of the UK team fighting for them.
The European versions for example had a lot less thrown at them. I tend to agree though that the leather interior, was maybe a step too far. It would of been better to make that a take it or leave it option.
But seemingly this policy has been toned down for the New Golf GTI, so maybe SEAT UK can convince the power that be to go the same way. We are very much more demanding in the UK regarding our hot hatchbacks, and based on the competition, they really must raise the bar.
I based my rough and ready analysis of costs by looking at the current MK3 5 door, and by ticking boxes its very easy to hit £24-£25k retail with a 1.8 FR. So if some of that models features are standard fit on a Cupra, then its not beyond the pale to think they are unlikely to be put in for free.
Prices are steadily rising across the group, the Golf is more, the Audi is more, I fully expect SEAT to try and slot it in below the Golf.
I like the idea of the new Golf's performance packs, and with SEAT seemingly adopting an option based retail menu structure, I can see them introducing something similar for the Cupra.
In the past I know with first hand correspondence with the marketing people it has been difficult for the folks at SEAT UK to convince the VW UK powers that be, to allow a wider modification of the products. Not that they haven't tried, many of the Mk2 Cupra R's enhancements were as a direct result of the UK team fighting for them.
The European versions for example had a lot less thrown at them. I tend to agree though that the leather interior, was maybe a step too far. It would of been better to make that a take it or leave it option.
But seemingly this policy has been toned down for the New Golf GTI, so maybe SEAT UK can convince the power that be to go the same way. We are very much more demanding in the UK regarding our hot hatchbacks, and based on the competition, they really must raise the bar.
Whats going to be interesting with the hot hatch brigade seeing prices heading toward £30k is the following;
1) The M135i for £30k with no options - 320bhp, 3 litre 6 cylinder.
2) The forthcoming AMG A class Merc with 360bhp and four wheel drive for approx £35k with no options
Admittedly neither of these cars will come with any toys out the box - however when you consider you will end up with something that is, lets face it, a class above the likes of;
1) Focus ST/RS
2) Leon Cupra/R
3) Vauxhall Astra VXR
.....and has more power and all the panache of.....
1) S3
2) RS3
3) VW Golf GTi
4) VW Golf R
....people will vote with their wallets, especially when the German cars are going to hold their money better when it comes to trade in time.
Lets face it - those who waited for the first MK2 Leon Cupra R's and paying the full £25+k are getting £14k for them now less than 3 years later where similar aged S3's for example may be worth still low £20's from £30k.
And, as mentioned above, the low number of MK2 Leon Cupra R's and new Astra VXR's for that matter, proves that people are not spending their hard earmed money on the premium prices being asked for these specific models - and they definitely don't hold their value despite them being so rare.
Interesting times ahead though for sure!
For what its worth, after a 2004 Toledo 1.8T Sport a 2007 Leon Cupra and a 2010 Leon Cupra I really can't see the MK3 Leon Cupra ticking all the boxes for me sadly despite wanting to stick with the same size of car with bags of performance. I wish they would get their finger out and detail the spec - if it was priced right, looked good and had a decent spec and perhaps some surprising options/features, I could still be persuaded to buy one.
1) The M135i for £30k with no options - 320bhp, 3 litre 6 cylinder.
2) The forthcoming AMG A class Merc with 360bhp and four wheel drive for approx £35k with no options
Admittedly neither of these cars will come with any toys out the box - however when you consider you will end up with something that is, lets face it, a class above the likes of;
1) Focus ST/RS
2) Leon Cupra/R
3) Vauxhall Astra VXR
.....and has more power and all the panache of.....
1) S3
2) RS3
3) VW Golf GTi
4) VW Golf R
....people will vote with their wallets, especially when the German cars are going to hold their money better when it comes to trade in time.
Lets face it - those who waited for the first MK2 Leon Cupra R's and paying the full £25+k are getting £14k for them now less than 3 years later where similar aged S3's for example may be worth still low £20's from £30k.
And, as mentioned above, the low number of MK2 Leon Cupra R's and new Astra VXR's for that matter, proves that people are not spending their hard earmed money on the premium prices being asked for these specific models - and they definitely don't hold their value despite them being so rare.
Interesting times ahead though for sure!
For what its worth, after a 2004 Toledo 1.8T Sport a 2007 Leon Cupra and a 2010 Leon Cupra I really can't see the MK3 Leon Cupra ticking all the boxes for me sadly despite wanting to stick with the same size of car with bags of performance. I wish they would get their finger out and detail the spec - if it was priced right, looked good and had a decent spec and perhaps some surprising options/features, I could still be persuaded to buy one.
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AUDI S3 reviewed by Auto Express - 4 Stars Retailing at shade under £32k
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/s3/63466/new-audi-s3
Gives a fair hint at what is to come - except we can probably expect the SEAT to lack the 4WD. They have to nobble it somehow.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/s3/63466/new-audi-s3
Gives a fair hint at what is to come - except we can probably expect the SEAT to lack the 4WD. They have to nobble it somehow.
AutoExpress have posted some more info on the forthcoming Cupra.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/leon/63498/new-seat-leon-cupra
and What Car too.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/seat-leon-cupra-more-bhp-than-golf-gti/265703
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/leon/63498/new-seat-leon-cupra
and What Car too.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/seat-leon-cupra-more-bhp-than-golf-gti/265703
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Based on the target power output, its fairly clear this is a de-tuned new 2.0T S3 engine. Just like the current MK2 is a de-tuned S3 engine. So that will easily give them the scope to turn up the wick for the inevitable R version!
However I wouldn't hold your breath for an R version landing in the next couple of years, they tend to be an end of life product.
"This has to be a car people are proud to own, and you could definitely put your mother in law in this new Cupra."
"This has to be a car people are proud to own, and you could definitely put your mother in law in this new Cupra."
I think that's a Spanish euphemism for a little understated, not too hyper.
To be fair, its a characteristic I personally like about the Cupra's and even the Cupra R's they are not too hyper car mad.
These days it only draws unwanted attention if they are too look at me!
Engineering is more of a key importance to me, is it quick, does it drive well, do they handle the power. Aesthetically I like it to be recognisably different to the standard models obviously, but I'd like them to spend more attention on the interiors and toys, its where I spend most of my time.
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Based on the competition I think this is the economies of needing to offer a wider choice.
The new VAG MQB platform makes this easier to achieve, because they now can build cars of varying chassis length on the same production line. So if its achievable and doesn't increase costs while offering the consumer a wider choice of variants of a particular model its a no brainer!!
The new VAG MQB platform makes this easier to achieve, because they now can build cars of varying chassis length on the same production line. So if its achievable and doesn't increase costs while offering the consumer a wider choice of variants of a particular model its a no brainer!!
Diff - 
Power - Expected
Price
All wheel drive
No mention of DSG in the Auto Express article either.
Spending that much, it's gonna need to be fully loaded with toys as standard.
Also, need to reserve judgement on the looks - hope its nowhere near as dull as the FR.
Power - Expected
Price
All wheel drive
No mention of DSG in the Auto Express article either.
Spending that much, it's gonna need to be fully loaded with toys as standard.
Also, need to reserve judgement on the looks - hope its nowhere near as dull as the FR.
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