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Timing pull and injector duty cycle
- Thread starter 8bit
- Start date
Cool, thanks. Can fuel pressure be logged with vagcom?
I'll see if I can get those other blocks logged soon.
no you cant log fuel pressure in vagcom.. there is no fuel pressure sensor on 1.8t
logs will indirectly see whats occuring..
need physical gauge to check
logs will indirectly see whats occuring..
need physical gauge to check
OK, finally managed to get some logs done on Saturday. I've recently change the FPR for another 3-bar one and changed the fuel filter. IDCs still peaking about 99% though. Blocks 001, 031 and 118 as you suggested Bill, I also logged 002, 020 and 115. I've added calculated AFR based on the actual lambda reading on the first log and I've added a calculated injector duty cycle column to the second one, using (on-time x RPM) / 1200 as the formula (that's right isn't it?)
Lambda corrections look good to me, barring a bit of extra fuel when it comes on boost. The peak MAF reading is down 10g/s from the last time I logged so I did wonder if that was out, but that would show up in either or both of the lambda sensor readings and lambda corrections. As I said I've changed the fuel filter and FPR, only things left would be the injectors and the pump I guess?
Code:
Saturday 16 February 2013 12:31:53:62534 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5 Data version: 20121222
1ML 906 032 A 1.8l R4/5VT 0001
Group A: '001 Group B: '031 Group C: '118
Engine Speed Coolant Lambda Control Basic Setting Lambda Control Lambda Control Bin. Bits Bin. Bits Engine Speed Intake Air Boost Pressure Boost Pressure
TIME (G28) Temperature (G62) Bank 1 Requirements TIME Bank 1 (actual) Bank 1 (specified) AFR TIME (G28) Temperature (G42) Control (N75) (actual)
Marker STAMP /min °C % STAMP STAMP /min °C % mbar
0.01 1840 87 -1.6 11101011 0.31 1.008 1 14.8176 0.61 1840 24 0 1010
0.92 1800 87 -1.6 11111111 1.21 1.008 1 14.8176 1.52 1800 24 0 1010
1.81 1800 88 0 11100111 2.12 0.883 0.953 12.9801 2.42 1800 24 100 1000
2.73 1800 87 0 11100011 3.03 0.953 0.938 14.0091 3.33 1920 21 100 1210
3.63 1960 88 0 11101011 3.93 0.922 0.93 13.5534 4.22 2080 18 100 1450
4.54 2160 88 0 11101001 4.84 0.93 0.922 13.671 5.14 2320 17 93.3 1720
5.44 2400 88 1.6 11101001 5.74 0.883 0.875 12.9801 6.04 2600 15 81.2 2130
6.35 2720 88 8.6 11101001 6.65 0.828 0.821 12.1716 6.95 2960 15 77.3 2420
7.25 3080 88 4.7 11101001 7.55 0.805 0.805 11.8335 7.86 3320 15 77.3 2410
8.16 3440 88 -0.8 11100001 8.46 0.797 0.797 11.7159 8.76 3720 15 77.6 2410
9.06 3840 88 0 11100001 9.36 0.805 0.797 11.8335 9.67 4080 15 77.3 2420
9.97 4160 88 0 11100001 10.27 0.805 0.805 11.8335 10.57 4400 16 78 2380
10.87 4520 88 0.8 11101001 11.17 0.782 0.805 11.4954 11.48 4720 17 77.6 2330
11.78 4840 88 0.8 11101001 12.08 0.797 0.805 11.7159 12.38 5040 18 77.3 2280
12.68 5120 89 0 11101001 12.98 0.805 0.805 11.8335 13.29 5320 19 78 2260
13.59 5400 89 -0.8 11101001 13.89 0.797 0.805 11.7159 14.19 5600 21 78.4 2270
14.49 5680 89 -0.8 11101001 14.81 0.797 0.813 11.7159 15.1 5840 21 79.2 2130
15.4 5880 88 -0.8 11101001 15.7 0.805 0.813 11.8335 16 6080 23 78.8 2270
16.32 6120 88 -2.3 11101001 16.62 0.805 0.813 11.8335 16.91 6160 24 0 2120
17.21 6120 87 2.3 11110001 17.51 0.766 0.922 11.2602 17.81 5920 21 0 1140
18.11 5760 87 0 11110001 18.42 1.991 1.047 29.2677 18.72 5520 21 0 1070
19.02 5360 87 0 11110001 19.32 1.991 1.047 29.2677 19.62 5160 22 0 1050
19.92 5080 87 0 11110001 20.23 1.991 1.047 29.2677 20.53 4880 23 0 1040
20.83 4800 87 0 11110001 21.13 1.991 1.047 29.2677 21.43 4640 23 0 1030
21.74 4520 87 0 11110001 22.04 1.991 1.047 29.2677 22.34 4360 23 0 1040
Code:
Saturday 16 February 2013 12:37:16:62534 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5 Data version: 20121222
1ML 906 032 A 1.8l R4/5VT 0001
Group A: '002 Group B: '020 Group C: '115
Engine Speed Engine Load Injection Timing Duty Cycle Mass Air Flow Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Engine Speed Engine Load Boost Pressure Boost Pressure
TIME (G28) Sensor (G70) TIME Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 TIME (G28) (specified) (actual)
Marker STAMP /min % ms g/s STAMP °KW °KW °KW °KW STAMP /min % mbar mbar
0.29 1760 20.3 2.04 2.99 8.81 0.6 0 0 0 0 0.01 1760 17.3 990 1040
1.21 1840 86.5 8.84 13.55 35.5 1.51 0 0 0 0 0.9 1800 79.7 1710 1060
2.11 2000 103.8 10.54 17.57 44.22 2.41 0 0 0 0 1.81 1920 97 1730 1300
3.01 2200 127.8 12.92 23.69 58.94 3.32 0 0 0 0 2.72 2120 120.3 1840 1540
3.92 2480 149.6 16.32 33.73 78.75 4.22 0 1.5 0 0 3.62 2360 142.1 1990 1860
4.83 2800 177.4 21.76 50.77 93.08 5.13 0 1.5 1.5 0 4.53 2680 169.2 2170 2310
5.73 3160 191 22.78 59.99 125.72 6.03 0 0.8 1.5 0 5.43 3080 183.5 2230 2390
6.64 3520 191.7 22.78 66.82 138.78 6.94 0 0.8 1.5 0 6.34 3400 191.7 2260 2400
7.54 3880 191.7 22.44 72.56 146.69 7.85 0 0.8 0.8 0 7.24 3760 191.7 2270 2400
8.45 4240 191.7 22.44 79.29 158.64 8.75 1.5 0 0.8 0 8.15 4120 191.7 2260 2360
9.35 4560 190.2 21.42 81.40 162.11 9.66 1.5 0 0 0 9.05 4440 190.2 2240 2320
10.26 4880 184.2 20.4 82.96 169.44 10.56 0.8 1.5 0 0 9.96 4760 188 2220 2270
11.17 5120 182 20.06 85.59 177.78 11.47 0.8 1.5 0 0 10.86 5040 181.2 2220 2240
12.07 5400 181.2 20.06 90.27 188.78 12.38 0 0.8 0.8 0 11.77 5320 184.2 2230 2250
12.97 5640 178.2 19.72 92.68 197.47 13.28 0 0.8 0.8 0 12.67 5560 181.2 2230 2230
13.88 5880 175.2 19.38 94.96 198.11 14.18 0 0 1.5 0 13.58 5800 177.4 2200 2250
14.79 6080 178.2 19.72 99.91 199.31 15.1 0 0 0.8 0 14.48 6000 174.4 2190 2210
15.69 6280 163.9 18.02 94.30 203.31 16 0 0 0.8 0 15.39 6200 173.7 2190 2190
16.61 6440 170.7 18.36 98.53 202.64 16.91 0 0.8 0.8 0.8 16.29 6400 174.4 2200 2120
17.5 6600 171.4 23.8 130.90 207.08 17.81 2.3 3 2.3 0.8 17.21 6560 162.4 2200 2220
18.41 6480 14.3 1.7 9.18 12.5 18.71 0 0 0 0 18.11 6520 13.5 990 1320
19.31 6360 12 0 0.00 14.67 19.61 0 0 0 0 19.01 6360 12.8 990 1100
20.23 6200 12 0 0.00 14.81 20.52 0 0 0 0 19.92 6240 12 990 1070
21.12 6040 12 0 0.00 14.17 21.42 0 0 0 0 20.82 6080 12 990 1060
22.03 5880 12 0 0.00 14.19 22.33 0 0 0 0 21.73 5920 12 990 1060Lambda corrections look good to me, barring a bit of extra fuel when it comes on boost. The peak MAF reading is down 10g/s from the last time I logged so I did wonder if that was out, but that would show up in either or both of the lambda sensor readings and lambda corrections. As I said I've changed the fuel filter and FPR, only things left would be the injectors and the pump I guess?
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i use this to quickly reference IDC
http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-idc.htm
to drop IDC you need to up fuel pressure or fit larger injectors..
001 is'nt finding itself having to add much fuel, which if fuel pump/pressure was sagging I would expect to see..
http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-idc.htm
to drop IDC you need to up fuel pressure or fit larger injectors..
001 is'nt finding itself having to add much fuel, which if fuel pump/pressure was sagging I would expect to see..
Ok so that's the correct calculation then, (IPW x RPM) / 1200 = Injector Duty Cycle? That's the same right across the rev range?
I see your point about how a tired pump would also show up in the lambda corrections so I guess that rules that out. So am I right in saying it just looks like the map is expecting almost as much as the injectors, pump and FPR are capable of providing?
I did ask Revo if the map (stage 1 linear) was able to support bigger injectors but they said no - they also reckoned the IDCs for that map should be somewhere nearer 85% on stock hardware and suggested there could be something wrong with my fuelling system.
So I guess my options are either replace the pump for a stronger one and fit a 4-bar FPR, or just notch the boost back a notch or two with the SPS switch until the IDCs are back within sensible limits?
I see your point about how a tired pump would also show up in the lambda corrections so I guess that rules that out. So am I right in saying it just looks like the map is expecting almost as much as the injectors, pump and FPR are capable of providing?
I did ask Revo if the map (stage 1 linear) was able to support bigger injectors but they said no - they also reckoned the IDCs for that map should be somewhere nearer 85% on stock hardware and suggested there could be something wrong with my fuelling system.
So I guess my options are either replace the pump for a stronger one and fit a 4-bar FPR, or just notch the boost back a notch or two with the SPS switch until the IDCs are back within sensible limits?
you could lob larger injectors in, or 4bar it to drop IDC... and lemmiwinks/unisettings 15% primary fuel back out as crude scaler.
that will adjust the whole scales on revo/any code
does'nt explain why, but is a diy fix/band_aid for you
that will adjust the whole scales on revo/any code
does'nt explain why, but is a diy fix/band_aid for you
The car dyno'd at 286.6bhp last time. I agree the airflow looks a little low, I'm running the timing setting on the SPS at 4 though, and I've seen higher airflow in the past. Last lot of logs showed peak airflow at 217g/s. Could be cos I've run three blocks at once it's missed some higher airflow figures at the top end maybe?
Looking at my lambdas too, air/fuel seems to go down as far as 11.7:1, isn't that quite rich, even for Revo? Maybe the dealer set it up to run a bit richer than it needs to be?
fueling is'nt adjustable in revo on 1.8t
timing and boost only
if 286bhp was matching the 217g/s then you have your answer re IDC's
Now the question you have to ask yourself is, IF the IDC is max'd and the 920'c egt threshold for protection kicks in, where does the extra fuel dump fuel come from? max'd injectors..
timing and boost only
if 286bhp was matching the 217g/s then you have your answer re IDC's
Now the question you have to ask yourself is, IF the IDC is max'd and the 920'c egt threshold for protection kicks in, where does the extra fuel dump fuel come from? max'd injectors..
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I know I can't adjust fuel level with the SPS but I wondered if the dealer maybe had a little leeway on that - guess not.
So the answer being that the map is just asking for all that the fuelling system can give, is that right? If so then I either need to increase pressure/flow, or reduce boost in SPS to leave some headroom in the IDCs?
So the answer being that the map is just asking for all that the fuelling system can give, is that right? If so then I either need to increase pressure/flow, or reduce boost in SPS to leave some headroom in the IDCs?
dealer cant change anything more than you can via SPS..
more pressure less IDC's and correct via adj fuel trims in lemmi/uni like I said earlier
Fresh LCR one is adequate.
unless you have checked fuel pressure for holding 3bar +boost how/WHY are you thinking about replacing it?
The 001 trims are'nt suggesting pressure drop off as said...
Measure it to confirm is my advise.
unless you have checked fuel pressure for holding 3bar +boost how/WHY are you thinking about replacing it?
The 001 trims are'nt suggesting pressure drop off as said...
Measure it to confirm is my advise.
Cos someone posted at the top of page 2 and suggested that running a 4-bar FPR may kill the stock pump. You said yourself it would be a temporary measure, so I figured you meant not running a 4bar FPR long-term on the standard pump. I know of one guy with an AMK engine car locally that killed his stock pump running a 4bar FPR too, but then I know of others who've been running fine like that for a while.
I priced up a new Pierburg pump for an LCR for £210 from Eurocarparts, for that sort of money I figured I may be as well fitting something uprated.
In any case, I think I'm going to try turning the boost down a notch and logging again. I also get a slight flutter when hitting full boost on WOT in taller gears so reckon I need to pull it back for that reason. If that brings IDCs down far enough then I'll just leave it like that.
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