Blower on strike :(

[GainfulShrimp]

Long time no post, sorry! Does anyone still remember me?

Hopefully someone might have some advice... my 10 reg 1.6CR Ecomotive SE has suddenly (since yesterday evening) decided not to blow any air through the vents, regardless of whether it's on auto or any manual fan setting, including max. I have the climatronic a/c.
It wasn't making any funny noises or anything different to normal - I just noticed it was colder than usual and when I turned the temp up, the little red lights for the fan ramped up, but nothing was coming from the vents.

When I put the windscreen demist on (or forward only, feet only, etc), I can hear flaps/stuff moving about as normal, but no breeze out of the vents and no fan noise.

I think the heat is still working - I can feel slight warmth out of the vents when on normal settings and it actually feels quite warm with my hand on the vents on high temp settings especially on the "forward only" mode.

Naturally I've done a search on here - my first port of call for any Leon queries, of course - and found some useful tips from Techie, Coggie, TimSarf and others. So I spent the afternoon freezing my nads off on the drive, trying to fix it. This is what I've tried so far:

1. Took off the panel on the end of the dash next to the steering column, and checked all the fuses - they all look fine.
2. Ditto the fuses in the engine bay in the box next to the battery (once I finally worked out how to open it!) - they looked fine too.
3. Unscrewed and removed the plastic panel under the glovebox and removed the blower fan. This involved a certain amount of mumbled swearing as it was a devil to get it to twist out and my legs were in the snow in the mean time! Couldn't see any sign of water/corrosion on any screws or connectors. The fan itself seemed to turn freely when I gently spun it with my fingers - didn't seem stuck or stiff or anything like that.

When I put everything back together, I was hoping that I might have fixed it by wiggling/re-attaching some loose connector or fuse... but still nought from the blower.

Does anyone have any other ideas for things to try please?

I don't fancy being without a blower in this weather for long, so fear a trip to the dealer might be needed, dang it.

Needless to say, with murphy's law being what it is, the car is now out of warranty - I've done almost 70k miles in it. I've always taken it to the dealer for servicing and have Seat Insurance too, so might see it they'll help towards any cost as a "goodwill gesture" or whatever they call it. Worth a shot or am I dreaming?

 

[Deleted member 74601]

Sounds like it could be nackered to be fair.

 

[coggie]

In my experience it is generally a case of being seized and refuses to turn, as you say it spins freely then my mind goes towards the control unit, the box that bolts to the motor housing and has wiring in/out.

Only sure way to tell is to put 12v directly onto the motor (straight onto the red/black wiring) from past experience it needs a fair chunk of current to turn properly, so you'll need a good power suppply - possibly a laptop or something else that gives 3-4A +

Failing that, if you go to the dealer - I've always been under the belielf that if you don't ask then you don't get - give the sympathy card a go....

 

[EndlessNameless]

I'd turn the fan on and see if there are any volts getting to the blower motor. If there are (presumably 12V is what you're looking for if it's set on flat out, but I don't know for sure) then you've got a broken motor.

If not then maybe trace the wires back and see at what point you do have volts, should identify where the fault is.

Or it could be in the control panel. No idea how that works!

 

[Nath.]

If you've got 12 volts supply to the motor (full speed) Maybe about 5 volts on low speed then........

I've had the following before..........

Rain or water from thawing snow has overflowed the skuttle it drips through the heater system and makes the foot wells wet. The brushes in the fan motor become damp and the brush holders get a light coating of rust. This makes the carbon brushes stick. They will work whilst they are stuck until they wear ever so slightly (they are a consumable) and then the springs won't press them onto the commutator properly because they are stuck.

Removing the motor and spraying the brushes with WD40 and giving them a wiggle will sort this out.


Or maybe just give the fan motor a good clout.................If this works temporarily then remove it and lube the brushes/holders.


Is it not under warranty?

 

[GainfulShrimp]

Thanks chaps!

I think the warranty was 3 years (2 SEAT + 1 dealer) or 60k miles... And I've done 2.5yrs and 69k miles.

I don't have much clue with electronics (I don't own a multimeter or ought). Think I'll attempt the sympathy thing at the dealer and see what they come back with...

 

[coggie]

For reference I believe 12v is constantly supplied to the motor control unit, it's the signal wire from the climate control that instructs the control unit on the motor housing on how much to let through to the motor itself.

I can understand if you're not familer with electronics/electrical systems then things like brushes are for sweeping and a commutator is a nice term for a communist dictator...

If the dealer says you need a new motor or control unit insist that you keep the old unit, It may bring you a few £ on ebay even if advertised as faulty, I for one would be interested in a reconditioning job.

 

[Nath.]

There is a very easy and cheap way to diagnose this.

Buy one of these from ebay for under £3>>>>>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIGITAL-L..._Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3cce5c513d It's a cheap test meter but will be fine for what you want it for. Then report back here for instructions how to test for supply voltage to the motor and resistance across the motor to check for stuck brushes that are not contacting.

Myself or anyone else that knows can tell you how to use the meter and help you to understand the readings. If the fault is what I think it is you will be able to repair it yourself for the cost of the meter and a can of WD40. If you can remove the motor and put it back you can fix this fault with a little forum help and a cheap test meter.

Do this before you spend money at a garage. the meter will be useful to you for other car stuff and for testing stuff at home too.

 

[GainfulShrimp]

And that's why I love this forum - thanks!

This morning's drive into work wasn't as cold as I'd feared - after about 15-20 miles the car does warm up a bit even with only a trickle of warm air coming out of the vents... so I can cope with a few days without the blower while I have a go at diagnosis with your help, I reckon.

I might push the boat out and pick up a cheapish multimeter from Maplin or something. Could get one today that way and I'm saving on the WD40 anyway as I have a can of that already.

Will report back when I've got a multimeter... thanks again.

 

[Nath.]

No probs.

 

[GainfulShrimp]

Right... I've just spent a whopping £9.99 on a Uni Trend UT30B Palm Size Digital Multimeter, which looks like this:

"UT30 series multimeter is 3 1/2 digits with steady operations,fashionable structure and highly reliable hand-held measuring instrument."

Obviously, it was the 'fashionable structure' that swung the decision.

Now, what do I need to do with it please?

 

[AndyVTR]

Mine has been like this since September. Not too bad at speed as it keeps warm but a nightmare around town. Passed MOT ok.

 

[Nath.]

Right... I've just spent a whopping £9.99 on a Uni Trend UT30B Palm Size Digital Multimeter, which looks like this:

"UT30 series multimeter is 3 1/2 digits with steady operations,fashionable structure and highly reliable hand-held measuring instrument."

Obviously, it was the 'fashionable structure' that swung the decision.

Now, what do I need to do with it please?

OK, In basic laymans terms to make it easy for you............

Plug the black probe into the hole marked com (common)

plug the red probe into the middle hole.

If you were to unplug the blower motor (as if you were going to remove it from the car) Imagine that the blower motor is out of the car and on the floor outside, you would be left with a connector plug dangling around under the dash. This plug (I assume) has 2 wires and therefore 2 connectors. (Plus and minus) This will be the supply from the car to the blower motor.

stick the 2 probes into the 2 connectors (plus and minus) of the wire that supplies the motor (if you put the black and red probes the wrong way it doesn't matter) and set the meter to 3 clicks clockise from the off position (up to 20v DC). Then turn on the blower full speed and see what value you have on your meter (should be about 12 volts. (if you have the 2 probes the wrong way round you will get -12 volts (minus 12 volts) Set the blower speed to low and see what voltage you get, it should be about 5 volts I reckon.

Do this and let me know.

 

[coggie]

You're looking for a 6 way multi-plug, 2 large wires and 2 small ones

The small ones are hidden in that picture, they're the signal wires from the Climate Control unit, they direct the motor control unit on how much electricity to let through to the motor itself.

 

[GainfulShrimp]

Thanks guys. I should get opportunity to try this on Thursday.

I'll let you know what figures I get...

 

[GainfulShrimp]

Right... I unexpectedly had 30 mins free this afternoon, so grabbed my new multimeter.

There's nothing like a crappy phone pic or four, so here is a shot of what you see after removing the plastic panel under the glovebox:

The large connector at the middle-left of the photo is the same one as in Coggie's photo a couple of posts ago in this thread.
Towards the bottom of the photo, you can see a red wire and black wire going from a two-wire connector through a seal in the side of the round thing, which must be the power to the motor for the blower.

Here is a close-up of the large six-pin connector:

It only has three wires going into it:

1. Thick red/white striped
2. Thin black/white striped
3. Thick brown

Even without the key in the ignition, the meter reported 12.46v between the brown and red/white thick wires. This value didn't change too much with the car on and the fan on off, min or max - it appears to be constant irrespective of fan setting, as Coggie said.

However, if I measured between the brown (thick) and black/white (thin) wires, the values changed according to fan speed setting:

Off = 0.00
Min = 2.46
(there were intermediate values, proportional to fan speed setting that I didn't bother writing down)
Max = 9.59

Next, I tried to measure the voltage going to the motor, like this:

But I couldn't get any voltage reading at all at this connector, whether the requested fan speed was none, min or max.

So... that would tend to suggest either:

1. I wasn't making a good connection to the connector with the multimeter probes (I shoved them in tightly and wiggled them though).
or
2. The 'speed controller' or whatever you call the box that controls the motor is kaput.

The speed controller seems to be bolted to the blower unit rather than an integral part, so I'm hoping that you can purchase just the controller as a spare part.

Here is a close up of the label on the speed controller, showing the codes etc:

Do you agree with my diagnosis?

If so, do you know where I can get a new controller from?

 

[coggie]

To be absolutely 100% sure you could remove the connector with the black/red wires, this will expose two nice metal pins you can make a good contact with the meter.

As you correctly state, if the speed controller is 'dead' it can be unbolted from the fan housing, just two bolts and the two connectors. You could go down the used route with it and try to find one from a breaker - but I imagine you will have to buy the complete fan/motor/housing.

You could try the local dealer, but I'm not sure if they sell it as a stand alone part.

 

[Nath.]

Can you test something for me?

On the yellow plug with the 3 wires, pull the plug out and connect the probes to the now visible connections that the 2 thick wires would normally connect to.

Set the meter one click to the right from the temp setting that says 0 degrees c

Before you actually connect the probes to the motor just touch the 2 probes together, the meter should beep, it should also bleep when you connect it to the motor. If it doesn't, there is your fault.

 

[GainfulShrimp]

Thanks guys. I've just noticed my multimeter is subtly different to the one in the picture on the box (it's the same box and manual for several similar models) - mine doesn't have the 'continuity buzzer' function.

But it has a diode check function and it displays 1 on the left of the screen for 'out of range', i.e. until you touch the probes together. Hopefully that'll do the same thing visually as the beep check...

It's too dark to do much now but I'll hopefully get chance in the morning.

Ta muchly!

 

[Nath.]

Thanks guys. I've just noticed my multimeter is subtly different to the one in the picture on the box (it's the same box and manual for several similar models) - mine doesn't have the 'continuity buzzer' function.

But it has a diode check function and it displays 1 on the left of the screen for 'out of range', i.e. until you touch the probes together. Hopefully that'll do the same thing visually as the beep check...

It's too dark to do much now but I'll hopefully get chance in the morning.

Ta muchly!

You either know more than you're letting on or you learn real quick



Ok, do a continuity test across the motor. If it doesn't say 1 and you get a reading your brushes are touching the commutator. If you can you need to do a continuity test and slowly rotate the motor to see if you have continuity for a full rotation.