Lower+Handling+Comfort ??
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The big problem with your question is that "comfort" is subjective, depends on what you think is comfortable.
Lowering is done for looks. It should be no surprise that this generally makes the handling worse.
Done properly, a lowered car can be comfortable, handle well and look better than the standard model.
It is generally agreed that for pure track handling, the Mk.IV Golf platform needs to be raised at the front and lowered at the back. Many enthusiasts with lowered suspension will be screeching right now, but it's true.
Lowering means stiffening, and less roll in corners, which can feel better. Lowering also means reduced suspension travel, and so is more likely to result in lifting the inside wheel, which is bad for grip. In real handling terms, nearly all lowered cars are worse off.
My TDI Toledo has the Sports suspension package, which is lowered 15mm on Bilstein dampers, and has stiffer anti-roll bars front and back. It's hugely better than my old TDI 110 with the Comfort suspension, but that's mostly down to the improved anti-roll, and the fact that I'm driving in traffic on public roads and not on the track.
In the end you have to work out your own compromise.
Lowering is done for looks. It should be no surprise that this generally makes the handling worse.
Done properly, a lowered car can be comfortable, handle well and look better than the standard model.
It is generally agreed that for pure track handling, the Mk.IV Golf platform needs to be raised at the front and lowered at the back. Many enthusiasts with lowered suspension will be screeching right now, but it's true.
Lowering means stiffening, and less roll in corners, which can feel better. Lowering also means reduced suspension travel, and so is more likely to result in lifting the inside wheel, which is bad for grip. In real handling terms, nearly all lowered cars are worse off.
My TDI Toledo has the Sports suspension package, which is lowered 15mm on Bilstein dampers, and has stiffer anti-roll bars front and back. It's hugely better than my old TDI 110 with the Comfort suspension, but that's mostly down to the improved anti-roll, and the fact that I'm driving in traffic on public roads and not on the track.
In the end you have to work out your own compromise.
^^^^^^^^
but also different springs make the difference, as with most things "budget" springs will drop the ride height at the sacrifice of performance, quality springs will not only drop the ride hieght but also have a better performance due to their spring rate and progresive nature.
but also different springs make the difference, as with most things "budget" springs will drop the ride height at the sacrifice of performance, quality springs will not only drop the ride hieght but also have a better performance due to their spring rate and progresive nature.
good read mate , what would you suggest then , if i would say i want 100% increased handling more than anything ??
i always thought going lower would always be a + for handling , as your closer to the ground ie less lift? , and less body roll etc
Body roll is controlled by anti-roll bars which improve your comfort around fast bends but make the ride worse over potholes and speed bumps.
The problem with lowering the Mk.4 platform is that the roll center is lowered by twice as much as the center of gravity. So you have actually increased the roll moment, made it want to roll more in corners. This can be countered by stiffer anti-roll bars, but at a cost to comfort, and with the eventual consequence of lifting the inside wheel when you push it too far.
The aerodynamics of the bodyshell are largely unaffected by ride height, as the underside is not panelled or shaped at all. An air dam at the front will help to reduce front-end lightness at high speeds, but the difference would not be felt at most road speeds, unless you're heading into a gale force wind.
Racetracks tend not to have potholes or other lumps and bumps, so track cars can be set up with ground-skimming skirts and air dams - not an option we have, running on public roads. They can have much stiffer anti-roll bars too, as the driver's comfort is not a selling point.
Given that the state of much of our road network is poor, we need to consider good handling over bumps and potholes as well as on smooth surfaces, which leads us towards rally-car suspension i.e. more travel, less anti-roll stiffness and increased ride height. In practice this means that lowering, if taken to extremes, will result in a car that handles badly over anything other than a smooth road - and there aren't many of those around.
In my case I'm very impressed with the Sport suspension on my Toledo, and wouldn't want to spend money to change it.
Consider replacing worn suspension bushes if the car has some mileage on it. That on its own can sharpen up handling and improve the feel no end.
The problem with lowering the Mk.4 platform is that the roll center is lowered by twice as much as the center of gravity. So you have actually increased the roll moment, made it want to roll more in corners. This can be countered by stiffer anti-roll bars, but at a cost to comfort, and with the eventual consequence of lifting the inside wheel when you push it too far.
The aerodynamics of the bodyshell are largely unaffected by ride height, as the underside is not panelled or shaped at all. An air dam at the front will help to reduce front-end lightness at high speeds, but the difference would not be felt at most road speeds, unless you're heading into a gale force wind.
Racetracks tend not to have potholes or other lumps and bumps, so track cars can be set up with ground-skimming skirts and air dams - not an option we have, running on public roads. They can have much stiffer anti-roll bars too, as the driver's comfort is not a selling point.
Given that the state of much of our road network is poor, we need to consider good handling over bumps and potholes as well as on smooth surfaces, which leads us towards rally-car suspension i.e. more travel, less anti-roll stiffness and increased ride height. In practice this means that lowering, if taken to extremes, will result in a car that handles badly over anything other than a smooth road - and there aren't many of those around.
In my case I'm very impressed with the Sport suspension on my Toledo, and wouldn't want to spend money to change it.
Consider replacing worn suspension bushes if the car has some mileage on it. That on its own can sharpen up handling and improve the feel no end.
cheers for the help buddy , think i hold off on going low (tbh it is low enough for me
)think ill get uprated bushes(Powerflex or superpro) which i know will make it less comfy but handling should improve? , and a r32 front ARB
what else would u suggest ? for handling .. Rear ARB as well? strut braces? anything liek that
A rear ARB will make a big difference and reduce a lot of the under steer.
Damian @ DPM Performance
Damian @ DPM Performance
ARB's would be best but also would be a good time to fit new bushes.
Once their done then ytou can fiddle with different suspension option to fine tune ride height and handling characteristics
Once their done then ytou can fiddle with different suspension option to fine tune ride height and handling characteristics
Rear ARB makes? or they all very much the same? neuspeed, whiteline?
bush makes , superpro vs powerflex ?
The rear ARB I have is Neuspeed.
This is the only one you can fit if you have an OEM lum.
As for Powerflex v's Superpro, dunno min.
I got superpro as i got them from Keith at http://unit-15.com/
This is the only one you can fit if you have an OEM lum.
As for Powerflex v's Superpro, dunno min.
I got superpro as i got them from Keith at http://unit-15.com/
ah right guess it will ahve to be neuspeed then , sorry to ask another question
haha but 25mm or 28mm? whats the difference?cheers , ill ask for prices and see what they say as well for fitting etc as there not too far away
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3mm???
LOL
I've got a 28mm and never had any issues with it.
I had an S3 front upper strutt brace fitted at the same time and the handling was good.
LOL
I've got a 28mm and never had any issues with it.
I had an S3 front upper strutt brace fitted at the same time and the handling was good.
pfft haha ill get the 28mmyeh thinking of af s3 strut as well but will see after i price up bushing etc XD!
I went for Eibach pro kit springs becasue I was after pretty much everything you are and so far I'm really pleased, slightly lower improved dynamics and not too bad ride comfort.
Ive been looking into springs for my cupra and decided i will get the pro kit the car looks good closed up the gap on the arches nice mine is on 17s but should look good still
Interesting read!
Sorry to thread jack, however,I'm currently deliberating what to do with mine! I've got a 110se tdi with the R kit, which has been up-rated to about 200bhp, however, handles like a pig, to be honest! It's currently got the 18" Rs6 alloys on and looks a bit strange at the minute against the R kit (massive arch space!)
I'm stuck on whether to fit aftermarket coil overs/ springs, or fit the R suspension (I'm assuming that the 110 and R/Fr have different susp?)
I would love it to look a little lower, however, if just fitting ARBs will sort the ride out, that would suffice! (hopefully having a kid later in the year so gotta save them pennies!)
Any advice would be appreciated gents!
Sorry to thread jack, however,I'm currently deliberating what to do with mine! I've got a 110se tdi with the R kit, which has been up-rated to about 200bhp, however, handles like a pig, to be honest! It's currently got the 18" Rs6 alloys on and looks a bit strange at the minute against the R kit (massive arch space!)
I'm stuck on whether to fit aftermarket coil overs/ springs, or fit the R suspension (I'm assuming that the 110 and R/Fr have different susp?)
I would love it to look a little lower, however, if just fitting ARBs will sort the ride out, that would suffice! (hopefully having a kid later in the year so gotta save them pennies!)
Any advice would be appreciated gents!
Dezeze, TBH in you TDI the bushes will be very complient as will be the suspension and ARB's.
It's going to take a fair bit of cash to make it feel race car stiff but by changing any of the above it'll feel loads better.
The LCR OEM suspension sux, maybe go for a second hand spring and shock combination and team this with new top mount bushes and bearings. Then after that see what you have to spare cash wise and take it from there.
Don't over look keeping your tyres at the correct pressures as a good way of improving handling too
It's going to take a fair bit of cash to make it feel race car stiff but by changing any of the above it'll feel loads better.
The LCR OEM suspension sux, maybe go for a second hand spring and shock combination and team this with new top mount bushes and bearings. Then after that see what you have to spare cash wise and take it from there.
Don't over look keeping your tyres at the correct pressures as a good way of improving handling too
you couldnt be more right my car is on coilies with 19s on 35 profile tires and on its arse and a mean its arse and the handling is proper crap.
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