Robbie C's Ibiza Cupra

[gavbey]

oh and robbie would the wear to the cyclinders be a case of bore wash?

 

[Robbie C]

I wouldn't think so, fuelling is spot on. More likely the debris from the valve guides which has then wreaked havoc in the cylinders

 

[Robbie C]

Update time

This afternoon my JE pistons, ARP main studs and Ferrea valvetrain arrived from the US - big thanks to Sam @ INA for the service on this order, much appreciated.

It was like Christmas had come early when these bad boys arrived on my doorstep:

 

[Robbie C]

This evening I then took these over to Alex @ Backdraft ready to gap the rings and allow JNL to finish rebuilding my ported/polished AYP head, which has now also had a full new set of intake guides fitted following our recent findings - let's hope that's the last of it.

My block has now also been overbored to 82.5mm (1847cc) ready for my new JE pistons (9:1 CR) so it's all starting to come together.

On top of that I also took collection of my uprated SQS gearbox, running the SSS (street strong) semi-helical gears which look pretty damn chunky.

This weekend the head and block should be finished, ready to pick up and start putting everything back together to make a car again, now I've also got hold of my sputter big end bearings, thrust washers, main bearings, head bolts and all necessary gaskets. Big thanks to Alex for helping me get this sorted and giving up his time this evening, really appreciate it.

It's getting there, watch this space

 

[joehirth]

Those gears look STRONG good luck this time around.... also very interested in those valves, they look looovely. Might have to get some more info off you when they're all in and running. Sounds just about ready for big turbo set up .

 

[INA]

Good stuff Rob!

 

[GTi T]

All coming together nicely now Robbie,when do you hope to have it all done for?

Tom

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers all.

Hoping to get it back together and on the road within the next two weeks assuming everything goes to plan so not long now - then I just need fresh tax & test and it's good to go.

 

[gazcuprablk]

good work there m8 glad its coming on well, dont think mine will be on the road in 2 weeks mind lol any reason why you got ferrea valves instead of supertech? i know the seal leon supercopa same as the cupra r racecars run the ferrea valves but bill runs supertech in his racecar so just wanted to know if there was any reason behind this?

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers Gaz, stick with it. Already answered your question mate, keep up

hi robbie hows it going? glad to see some progress coming along with this unlike my car lol cant wait to see this all done and getting used properly and to see where all your cash has gone lmao, what valves are you getting for it m8? read on your first post that your using ferrea valves but had no update on this on your readers rides and who's doing the fitting of the valves for you?

keep up the good work both you and dale

Cheers Gaz - yeah will be nice to get it back on the road to get some moneys worth out of all this, though it gives me a sound platform to build upon.

After talking with a few people and getting quotes for various different bits and pieces I've ended up ordering:

JE 82.5mm 9:1 CR pistons
Ferrea Super Alloy inlet and exhaust valves
Ferrea valve springs and titanium retainers
Uprated sputter big end bearings
ARP main studs
OE replacement main bearings, thrust washers, head bolts, head gasket kit and crank seals

As JE have to custom machine these pistons I'm waiting on these to be finished and shipped along with my Ferrea valve set which should be with me within the next couple of weeks.

In the end the Ferrea valvetrain came in only slightly more expensive than the Supertech set and I was advised that the angles on the Supertech valve bowls don't always match those in the cylinder head, sometimes resulting in the need to get them re-machined. Either way, the Ferreas ought to be more than capable and look like a very nice kit.

In the meantime my AYP head has been sent to JNL for porting and polishing while the block is away being rebored to 82.5mm ready for the new pistons. Further updates to follow when bits start arriving ready to be fitted.

 

[ibizacupra]

i know the seal leon supercopa same as the cupra r racecars run the ferrea valves but bill runs supertech in his racecar so just wanted to know if there was any reason behind this?

supercopa 1.8t's run supertech valves not Ferrea

... I was advised that the angles on the Supertech valve bowls don't always match those in the cylinder head, sometimes resulting in the need to get them re-machined. Either way, the Ferreas ought to be more than capable and look like a very nice kit.

says who?
supertechs outflow others according to JP

 

[Robbie C]

The more people I speak to the more conflicting advice I get

Issam advised about the Supertechs - though it wouldn't make any odds to me when I've had my head ported/polished by JNL, but ultimately he did a good price on the Ferreas that couldn't be ignored and I'm led to believe they are uber high quality valves.

Tying this in with the smallport vs largeport discussions, I'm also advised JP has flow benched a ported smallport against a largeport and seen greater flow rates from the smallport, particularly on the exhaust side

With my turbo it's thought the largeport would give more lag and an decrease in torque whereas a properly ported smallport will give faster spool and more power throughout the rev range as the head is able to flow faster out of the exhaust side where the largeport has been seen to bottleneck the flow and slow the gases, comparitively speaking. It's also believed the ported smallport flows 5% more on the inlet side, based on the information I've been told at least

 

[ibizacupra]

largeport has larger exhaust ports as std...
and as for torque and spool deficit...... never seen it or experienced it
you have seen wellys largeport s3 k04 hybrid numbers and spool... laggy my phat arse!


each to their own
largeport always works better and comparing stock largeport to ported smallport its a no brainer.. why pay for porting a smallport when a largeport works, flows more out of the box.. and then you can port it further if spec desires it. every largeport head i have run allows more timing than its smallport cousin.. significantly. flowbench is not the defacto quantifier on bhp potential.. good guide, but a guide none the less.

"advised" words from jp directly or indirectly?

and as for valve info..
simply not accurate - Swindon Race Engines know what they used....... and good as ferrea are, it was'nt them

 

[IbizaAlex]

Indirectly through me, after ive spoken to jp.

Its not just about the flow figures, but also the air speeds which are more important.

Standard largeport is laggier than a ported smallport which you cant compare wellys to as a ported smallport has never been tested on the car to get a valid result.

I could build the same engine, one with a ported smallport and one with a largeport and use the same turbo, pipework, cooler, exhaust etc and the largeport is always laggier and less responsive. Yes getting a largeport is cheaper, but finding a good largeport these days is getting harder.

Supertech vs Ferrea. Same stuff really, but im prefering the Ferrea's more these days for the TFSi's. I dont mind fitting either on the 1.8T's. Depends whats available.

Just like fitting ARP main studs is a no brainer and a mains girdle when going big power!

 

[ibizacupra]

i can directly compare wellys... seen it in std form, k04, smallport, and k04 largeport and its hybrid version.. NONE of which can be classed as laggy. and on plot overlays with robbies k03 hybrid there's no such lag seen....

 

[IbizaAlex]

But not between a ported smallport and a largeport which was the point i was trying to make.

Ive more experience on the big turbo application rather than hybrids, which with bigger turbos you can notice the difference. A K04/K04 hybrid is never going to be laggy on any head.

Robbie has been looking to the future with this engine build and going big turbo when funds allow so the engine has been built with function in mind for the 380bhp mark which is where the ported smallport is by far the best option.

 

[Robbie C]

Interesting discussion and keen to hear everyones' inputs here.

The deciding factor for me in this instance was I couldn't find a largeport head when looking to buy one, whereas my smallport was sat there ready to go. I knew it would cost more to get it ported vs buying an OE largeport, though the flowbench results from JP suggested to me that it might be worth it.

Certainly from seeing Welly's power plot against mine at Badger5 there's no argument that the largeport makes the setup laggy by any stretch of the imagination - it's a question of whether the ported smallport on the same setup is overall more efficient.

There's definitely a valid argument for future proofing your setup by using a largeport head that can, if necessary, be ported for further gains at a later date - though I don't see myself ever opting for more than low 400 figures at absolute tops. Having not ever been out in a BT Ibiza it's hard to judge, though I maintain that I like an aggressive power delivery that offers instantaneous low-range torque. Some of the newest turbos in development such as the 2283 hybrids and the new HTA offerings from Garrett that utilise a billet wheel for good spool whilst maintaining strong power right to the redline will suit me well.

 

[ibizacupra]

Robbie has been looking to the future with this engine build and going big turbo when funds allow so the engine has been built with function in mind for the 380bhp mark which is where the ported smallport is by far the best option.

i will have to disagree.
no matter

 

[ibizacupra]

Some of the newest turbos in development such as the 2283 hybrids and the new HTA offerings from Garrett that utilise a billet wheel for good spool whilst maintaining strong power right to the redline will suit me well.

lupo's nearly reassembled, so not too long before i see what the 2283/k03 does (or does'nt do)

 

[joehirth]

Ported small port for me, not sure on valves yet