Schumacher dropped from 6th to 12th at Monaco after opportunistic move

[warren_cox]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8685359.stm

Schumacher has been dropped from 6th to 12th in the Monaco GP for a late opportunistic move on Fernando Alonso after a safety car was deployed in the last few laps to mop up an incident in Rascasse between Trulli and Chandock.

New rules mean that the whereas in the past you could not overtake on a safety car lap until after the finish line, now you can overtake after a new white line after the pit lane entry (unless it seems you are on the last lap - or overtaking a Ferrari!!). He was given a 20s penalty rather than having the places reversed as was originally suggested.

Seems Damon Hill has got his own back on Schumi after years of abuse he received now he is acting as race steward.

Ross Brawn had all the photos of green flags/lights, and proof that the safety car would be coming in, but obviously Schumi's upset too many people to get away with that!

I know a lot of people hate Schumi, but I think that sometimes they actually look for ways to penalise racers racing, forcing a procession. Very un-PC, but those in the back rooms politicising the sport; they're a bunch of f***ing nobheads.

 

[andycupra]

Michael Schumacher penalised and dropped out of points for last corner overtake

seems the stewards (which included Damon Hill) have penalised Michael Schumacher 20 seconds for the last corner overtake of Alonso; and as a result he scores no points:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8685542.stm LINK INCLUDES VIDEO OF INCIDENT.

For those that dont know when the safety car pulls into the pits the cars cannot overtake one another until they pass a specific line on the circuit. Previously this has been the start finish line, however this year this has been changed so that there is a line near the entry to the pit lane, after which racing and passing can commence. At Monaco and at most circuits this line is before the last corner and therefore 'racing' commences before the last corner.

The race appeared to be finishing behind the safety car but the crash was cleared and while they were starting the last lap it was declared that the safety car would be coming in at the end of the lap. At the time i thought that is going to be interesting because that means once they pass the demarkation line they can race to the line which would include the last corner so someone may try it on going into the last corner...
Michael Schumacher then managed to pass Alonso going into the last corner after Alonso appeared to lose traction coming out of the penultimate corner.
Well done Schumacher i thought.

However it would appear that there is also a rule that when a race finishes under safety car conditions the safety car will not lead them across the line, but instead it will pull into the pits and the cars must continue to the line without passing each other.

So, the question would appear to be did the race finish under the safety car?
if so, then the overtake was illegal.
However if the safety car conditions ended when the safety car pulled in, then to me it would appear that racing could commence from the pit entry demarkation line before the last corner.


Mercedes say that they were free to race, Ferrari dont.

But you have to ask the question, if Ferrari thought this at the time, why did Alonso appear to be pushing it so hard in the penultimate corner that he lost the back end of his car if they thought they were simply following each other to the finish line?


In my opinion i think they have been unfair on Schumacher as they seemed to follow the normal procedure for stating when a safety car stint ends by putting up the caption that the safety car would be pulling in at the end of the lap... (however i appreciate i have no idea if the lights on the safety car were turned off or not which is another indication - although not much use to those as the back)


I personally think that either they should leave the result as it was, or if they really do think they need to intervene put Schumacher back one place..

I think that Mercedes could well appeal and could argue their case, however i also know that there have been precedents that the race marshalls decision is final. - but what if its based on incorrectly applied rules?


What do others think? - another example of common sense failure or correct?

Discuss

 

[Fl@pper]

why change it from the finish line as a rule and then penalise those that follow it and gain against those that choose not too - shouldn't be penalised

i'll admit it's a dumbass rule when there is already a start/finish line to use mind

 

[andycupra]

why change it from the finish line as a rule and then penalise those that follow it and gain against those that choose not too - shouldn't be penalised

i'll admit it's a dumbass rule when there is already a start/finish line to use mind

I can in a way see why they did it, as if you get a tow from the leader as you exist the last corner the leader can in effect slow down and stop you overtaking as you have to back off before the start/finish line.
I think its also to try and reduce the leader slowing alot and then booting it and bunching the pack behind them which is a little dangerous.

I think it was a good idea, but poorly implimented. Perhaps the line should be at the entry to the last corner or at the end of the corner allowing overtaking for the whole start finish straight.

But in this case it actually appears that the failure is again poor communication, not the first time F1 has suffered this. It was not clear if the race was finishing under the safety car of if the safety car stint had finished.

If they were finishing under the safety car then the caption released should have said something like:
"Race finishing under safety car conditions, safety car to pull into pits, NO OVERTAKING ALLOWED".
Instead they put out a message that i took as indicating the safety car period was over, and it would appear they the entire BBC team thought the same. (i suspect Ferrari thought the same as Alonso nearly lost it and then narrowly avoided the barrier in the last corner trying the stop another car passing him).

How this wasnt anticipated with the rule change i dont know. (i suspect it involves some stupidity)

 

[pj1985]

Im afraid this stinks of the old Ferrari International Assistance of old that I hope had gone. The print outs Brawn showed on TV proved that there were no yellow flags before Schumi overtook Alonso and that the race screen said Safety car coming in, 1 min later race resumed, 1 min later race ended. If these things are right how can he be penalised under the rule that the race finished under a safety car when both the race screen and flags/lights on the circuit say its racing conditions.

 

[warren_cox]

Im afraid this stinks of the old Ferrari International Assistance of old that I hope had gone. The print outs Brawn showed on TV proved that there were no yellow flags before Schumi overtook Alonso and that the race screen said Safety car coming in, 1 min later race resumed, 1 min later race ended. If these things are right how can he be penalised under the rule that the race finished under a safety car when both the race screen and flags/lights on the circuit say its racing conditions.

If Ari Vatenen was head of FIA maybe there would be a different result, but then Hill hates Schumi so maybe not!

 

[truCido]

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

HOWEVER during the race they followed rule 40.11

40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.

As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

So basically the FIA fk'd up and schuy has been penalised

 

[m0rk]

I doubt he really gives one tbh.

 

[warren_cox]

I doubt he really gives one tbh.

I bet he has more fun racing it than we do watching it, so you're probably right.

 

[m0rk]

Plus.... who was talking about sixth place until he broke the rules airtime for his sponsors!

 

[Fl@pper]

Plus.... who was talking about sixth place until he broke the rules airtime for his sponsors!

who was on the podium again ?

 

[warren_cox]

who was on the podium again ?

Whatever they end up doing, it always becomes a one horse race!

 

[truCido]

I think because they messed up on how they did it they should only demote him to back behind Alonso and not penalise him 20 secs

 

[AndrewJB]

Ive been a ferrari fan since i was little and Schumacher has always been my driver,when he left i swapped to Massa


But im backing Mercedes GP,Schumacher and Brawn on this one!

That new rule is silly! The safety car was off the track,Everybody took of as if they where racing and Alonso got caught napping!

I agree with truCido above if they have to punish him they should only put him back to 7th

 

[RobDon]

Nice one Damon, revenge is sweet!

 

[AndrewJB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/05/why_schumacher_broke_the_rules.html

 

[warren_cox]

What does it say about Formula One that they need to have a rule that is so subjective that 'for appearance purposes' the cars have to be seen to be racing over the finish line to present the right effect, when they aren't actually racing at all.

Contrived bullsh1t.

Irrespective of the outcome, at least Schumi has had the good grace to stick 2 fingers up at article 40.13, and show there is some passion left on the track. Article 40.13 FFS, what is this a financial review or a motor race? I appreciate safety, but it's become a total farce.

 

[andycupra]

complete farce and yet again the rule makers and/or those implimenting them appear to have no common sense.

 

[Blanco92]

I've been an avid F1 fan for many years, as one of the younger generation I grew up watching and supporting Michael Schumacher, and I have to say, I feel he has been dealt a huge injustice by the stewards.

I understand the rule whereby if the safety car pits on the last lap, you must remain in formation without overtaking until the finish line. However, if that is the case, to stop overtaking, surely YELLOW FLAGS must be waved until the car's reach the line? This did not happen, instead the GREEN FLAG was waved, which in many people's book means go, normal race conditions, you may overtake!

I think Mercedes and Schumacher have taken advantage of a grey area in the rules, which needed to be clarified. However, to say it is illegal is scandalous, he's caught Alonso napping. As far as I'm aware, there's no rule that states you must not overtake when the green flag is being waved!!!

I'm really annoyed by this, it seems that we're punishing overtaking which we've long been trying to encourage.

 

[Fl@pper]

stupid idea adding an extra line anyway for christs sake - what was wrong with:

safety car lights on - follow in formation
safety car lights off - in this lap - follow in formation
safety car pulls in - stay in formation until over the line - THEN race !!

thats THE line, start line, finish line, lap marker line, the one that does it all anyway ffs