Wouldn't start again!

[Pheo]

Hi All,

Attempted a cold start on my 2.0 PD engine this morning - it was having none of it!

Turned over, nothing there at all. Called breakdown recovery, left it half an hour, it sounded slightly more like it wanted to, but only slightly! Breakdown sprayed eazistart (well, brake cleaner) into the air intake and 10 seconds later it was running no problem!

Trying to put together a list of things which could be wrong:

Coolant Temp Sensor (Is this the same as the thermostat? If so, this was meant to have been replaced less than 3000 miles ago!)

Bubbles in the fuel line

Dodgy/blocked fuel filter

Anything else? Is VAGCOM likely to be of any use?

PS, should say, its done this before. Sometimes its extremely lumpy and does not want to go, and twice its just not started (leaving it 24 hrs has resolved this).

 

[Viking]

Eazistart is not a good way to get your engine going. Here's why.

Highly flammable substances such as Eazistart in a diesel engine will be really bad if it goes wrong. If it ignites before the piston hits TDC then you're going to bend rods and all sorts of bad stuff. Petrol engines have spark ignition which controls when the fuel starts to burn. Diesel engines use compression to generate heat and the fuel is injected at precisely the right moment. If you're introducing a fuel into the air intake, then there's no control over when it starts to burn.

As for your problem, a place to start would be a scan with VCDS (Vag Com) and see if there's anything amiss.

 

[conkerman]

What viking said+1

Vag-Com and see what comes up. Could be a duff sensor.

Conks

 

[Pheo]

Eazistart is not a good way to get your engine going. Here's why.

Highly flammable substances such as Eazistart in a diesel engine will be really bad if it goes wrong. If it ignites before the piston hits TDC then you're going to bend rods and all sorts of bad stuff. Petrol engines have spark ignition which controls when the fuel starts to burn. Diesel engines use compression to generate heat and the fuel is injected at precisely the right moment. If you're introducing a fuel into the air intake, then there's no control over when it starts to burn.

As for your problem, a place to start would be a scan with VCDS (Vag Com) and see if there's anything amiss.

Really? Odd that the breakdown guy did this then, really? Or should he just have known better?

Got a Diag Cable on order, so hopefully a) it won't happen again before then and b) that shows up something...

 

[Viking]

What cable have you ordered?

 

[Pheo]

One from the leon forum... OBDII port one end, usb the other. Should work with 804.x

 

[techie]

Id put my money on a dodgy lift pump in the tank.

The brake cleaner etc gets it going and the tandem pump then car keep it going.

Next time it wont start pop the top off the fuel filter and see if its empty.

 

[Viking]

One from the leon forum... OBDII port one end, usb the other. Should work with 804.x

As long as it's Can based! To be honest, if it's ODBII then it's pretty much useless as far as VAG Can based cars are concerned as it'll only read certain controllers.

 

[Andrewcupra TDI]

Id put my money on a dodgy lift pump in the tank.

The brake cleaner etc gets it going and the tandem pump then car keep it going.

Next time it wont start pop the top off the fuel filter and see if its empty.

techie is that how i check the lift pump , as mine has the opposite affect to OP , mine wont on hot starts and its random ,

As for mine if i hold key on longer that needed (like a learner driver ringing the starter motor ) then mine will then start

 

[Pheo]

As long as it's Can based! To be honest, if it's ODBII then it's pretty much useless as far as VAG Can based cars are concerned as it'll only read certain controllers.

All on recommendation of the Leon MkII forums, and confirmed working on a 1P1 - so lets hope so!

I take it there are two fuel pumps then, one engine driven, one electric then?

Whereabouts is the fuel filter on the 2.0 PD - don't have a workshop manual and therefore dunno where to look for it! Don't even know what one looks like to be honest!

Andrewcupra: There is a load of info on hot starting problems, do a search/google. I think it was one or more of the sensors!

 

[Viking]

There's a fuel pump in the fuel tank. This is the one that Techie is talking about. The other pumps are camshaft driven on the engine. All 5 of them.

 

[Pheo]

There's a fuel pump in the fuel tank. This is the one that Techie is talking about. The other pumps are camshaft driven on the engine. All 5 of them.

Yep, figures. Didn't know there were 5 though. Take it a CR Engine would only have one.

Found this which helps with the fuel filter location:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/PD_fuel_delivery_check.pdf

Don't think I can "take the top off" but I can remove the correct "line" and put it into a bottle and see if its pumping fuel into the filter or not!

 

[Andrewcupra TDI]

Andrewcupra: There is a load of info on hot starting problems, do a search/google. I think it was one or more of the sensors!

dont i know it . tried a few with no joy

one day at a time i suppose

 

[techie]

Yep, figures. Didn't know there were 5 though. Take it a CR Engine would only have one.

Found this which helps with the fuel filter location:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/PD_fuel_delivery_check.pdf

Don't think I can "take the top off" but I can remove the correct "line" and put it into a bottle and see if its pumping fuel into the filter or not!

Dont want to conduse things but the CR has

Lift pump in the tank
Aux pump in the engine bay
Single pistion mechanical pump (engine driven, single rather than triple is why the above is needed)

PD fuel system has

In tank lift pump
Tandem pump on engine
Injectors

The tandem pump cant pull fuel from the tank so when that goes down or starts to fail you get a hesitation or poor starting.

 

[techie]

...and yes you can take the top off, its about six T20 screws.

 

[Pheo]

Ah assumed they were rivets, didn't really look hard enough!

Started first time this afternoon, without hesitation, but I did rotate the key a couple of times to listen for lift pump like noises. Didn't sound like an even humm, more like someone sucking up the last of a drink through a straw!

 

[techie]

Thats it working then, it should make a short squirting type noise just as it presurises the delivery line.

 

[Pheo]

Presumably it was working because the car started heh!

Acid test is listening for it next time it doesn't want to start, which I'll duly do!

Guess if it doesn't, it need replacing... intermittent fault.

 

[techie]

Yeah, its how they start. Done loads of them.

 

[Pheo]

Yeah, its how they start. Done loads of them.

Joy!

Is it a SEAT only part? Can't seem to find anything on google, but I'm probably calling it the wrong thing.

My car is actually covered under a warranty, but I think it may be difficult to convince them to replace it on the basis of my own diagnosis & an intermittent fault! So might have to wait for it to properly go!

Just found one, Bosch, £250 odd! ouch.