Service/MOT/brakes and a moan

[MikeO]

Just got my car serviced at Nationwide Autocentre and while the combined bill for the service (including 2 tyres, aircon service and a couple of other items) was not too bad at £414. I was some what shocked when they tried to convince me that both front and rear brakes discs were "badly" corroded! Also then require new pads as well!!! Another best part of £400!!!!!!!!!!!!

After discussing they admitted that it passed the MOT but in their opinion it "really" needed this work, as breaking efficiency was well down.

I said no but I would think on it.

Now I know it's 6 years old, but lowish miles (35K) and I am easy on the brakes (I think it's called anticipation). So on the way home (some 20 miles) progressively used the brakes harder to bed in etc. (can't say they felt too bad), then just before turning up our drive, tried emergency stop (quiet country road, dry, none slippy) and frankly the car stopped so well (ABS even kicks in) I almost go through the front windscreen! Does not feel like a car with dodgy brakes to me.

Put car in garage, get torch out and peer through alloys. Brake pads front and rear look to have plenty of life. Both front disc look fine, even polished disc. Slight lip top and bottom, but no more then I've seen on any other car that I've owned after a few thousand miles. Look at my sisters car, 9 year old Skoda, 125k on the clock and discs look identical. Maybe discs a little thinner and hence lip a little deeper. Fair enough a little corrosion on the backs at the top half inch but even this with a little hard braking seemed to be getting polished off.

Got to admit, this rather undermined my opinion of the garage!

Any comments, or similar experiences anyone?

Seems to me like they are trying to drum up work. Or am I judging them too quickly here?

PS. Must also admit to being surprised that they used Castrol Edge 5W30 (rather than 5w40) considering the price (bought 1L top up from Halfords on the way home and was shocked at price... £15.49!) Though I suppose that they bulk buy. Quite happy though, as the oil appears rated as OK for my engine according the the FAQ on here).

 

[RUM4MO]

The rear discs seem to suffer a lot from under use and no ammount of hard braking now will clean them up. My wife's Polo 1.4 SE is about 6.5 years old and is still on all its original brake parts at 57,000 miles - oh and the rear discs are still nice and shiny on both faces, as well as the fronts. That is one thing that you might not have checked - ie the inside faces on all four discs - and the thickness of the rear inside pads. I must admit that I do intend to replace all discs and pads when the weather improves as I have bought all the parts (ATE discs and Pagid front pads and Textar rear pads). I'd reckon because you have submitted your car, in this condition, that either the MOT guy or the service people feel they have a duty to comment on this as clearly you are not the sort of person that would determine when this would be required - I'm not meaning that in a nasty way by the way!
Did you not get an " advisory" with the MOT from the test guy?

 

[kriso]

You're probably right that they were trying to get your business.

But still - make sure you check the inside pads on each caliper too as they can be worn more than the outside ones on sliding calipers. Also remember the discs can need replacing after only 2mm of wear as they will then begin to heat up more quickly and lose the ability to disspiate heat as their mass is reduced. But it usually takes a long time to get this far down.

Probably worth checking, but if they passed the MOT, it can't be that urgent.

 

[MikeO]

RUM4MO

"I'd reckon because you have submitted your car, in this condition..."
But what I'm trying to get at, is they don't look that bad (in fact not bad at all). And while I may not have the knowledge etc. that some have on this forum. I have owned quite a few cars over the last 30 years or so, including some much more "interesting" motors than the Seat (no disrespect to it).

"Did you not get an " advisory" with the MOT from the test guy?"
Nope.
They just tried to talk me into the work over the phone and then added the comments on my bill.

"I'm not meaning that in a nasty way by the way!"
No insult taken. I appreciate peoples comments.

Kriso

Good point about checking the inside pads and disc faces. I'll whip a wheel off tomorrow and have a look.

"but if they passed the MOT, it can't be that urgent."
Fair point and why in fact I'm not particularly worried.

 

[Aimez]

Yeh they prob felt they have to tell you about it, we have to do this at work cos in a few weeks the brakes are then noticed as starting to get low and the customer is on the phone screaming why didn't you let me know they would need doin in a few week/months. You can't win wither way in a service department and of course you want your customers to come back!

My rear discs were very worn adn rusty when the car was at about 25k got the whole lot replaced at the time and the front ones were warped think the old owner slammed the brakes on all the time needlessly but not saying this is the case with yours!

 

[lil3520]

wife used quickfit years ago.

would never use them again, reasons like what you have mentioned.

 

[MikeO]

aimez

"You can't win wither way in a service department and of course you want your customers to come back!"

Fair comment. It must be very frustrating at times, especially working on the front desk. Having done a stint as an IT support engineer, I know only too well what plonkers people can be!

Overall I felt that Nationwide Autocentre did a reasonable job considering there were a number of jobs undertaken and I especially felt the full aircon service at £55 was good value (moral here... get it done in the Winter).

But as no "advisory notice" was issued with the MOT, I think they somewhat overplayed the issue with the brakes. Could not help but notice that at 9:30 in the morning, my car was the only one waiting for work!

If there's any power in the batteries in my digital camera, I may well post a couple of pictures.

 

[RUM4MO]

RUM4MO

"I'd reckon because you have submitted your car, in this condition..."
But what I'm trying to get at, is they don't look that bad (in fact not bad at all). And while I may not have the knowledge etc. that some have on this forum. I have owned quite a few cars over the last 30 years or so, including some much more "interesting" motors than the Seat (no disrespect to it).

"Did you not get an " advisory" with the MOT from the test guy?"
Nope.
They just tried to talk me into the work over the phone and then added the comments on my bill.

"I'm not meaning that in a nasty way by the way!"
No insult taken. I appreciate peoples comments.

Kriso

Good point about checking the inside pads and disc faces. I'll whip a wheel off tomorrow and have a look.

"but if they passed the MOT, it can't be that urgent."
Fair point and why in fact I'm not particularly worried.

It a bit wierd that they did not issue an advisory note - I find that dealers, Seat and Volkswagen anyway, like to do that is the brake pads are just over half worn - but they are not consistant with that action - I was prepared for that (advisory note for pad wear) when I handed but wife's Polo in last year, but did not get one, my daughter's Ibiza got an advisory the year before though - and the pads were just under half new thickness of the friction material - I thought that at that time the Seat dealer was using the MOT to try to generate business as these advisory notes are passed to "MOT CENTRAL". What I was not betting on finding was that that Seat dealer had replaced a disc earlier in the car's life and had fitted an earlier style thinner disc with wrong "height" - now that was a bit naughty!

 

[RUM4MO]

wife used quickfit years ago.

would never use them again, reasons like what you have mentioned.

Strange I seem to jump in and praise KwikFit - I'd never had thought that I would end up doing this, but, my daughter is a teacher so booked her car into Seat dealer for an MOT while on holiday at Christmas a couple of years ago - she pre-booked it in a few weeks earlier than when she needed to get this test done - so that it would happen at this time! She got a phone call on the morning that she was to take the car in "test cancelled a lot of staff off sick", and the next date she could get was six weeks later - not good enough for a big motor group with quite a few service points locally. I suggested her local KwikFit - but thought it might turn to poo, but they could handle the booking that day and the car passed okay - as it should have. That was the same KwikFit place that told her that they could not sort her tracking as she had a camber problem - and advised her where to go and get it sorted - ie either their specialist steering place or local Seat garage - which seemed like good advise!

 

[MikeO]

RUM4MO

I hear where you are coming from with your comment re KwikFit. I suppose it's very much a case of different branches of a chain/group can have a better reputation / give better service than others etc. Or even... one person get a good "experience" while another gets "shafted" at the same garage. Many variables I suppose (real, or perceived).

Slightly off topic (not by much I suppose) was not too happy to come out this morning and find one of the new tyres fitted yesterday was a good 10 pounds down! Pumped it up and it already looks to have lost air! O'dear another afternoon off to take it back in now.

Also.. while the D/S new tyre most definitely has had a new valve fitted, the P/S one (IE. the one looking to be going down) most definitely has not! Now I thought it was pretty much de-rigour to fit new valves when fitting new tyres?

PS. Digital camera batteries flat (now charging) so no picture/s till tomorrow.

 

[Aimez]

aimez

"You can't win wither way in a service department and of course you want your customers to come back!"

Fair comment. It must be very frustrating at times, especially working on the front desk. Having done a stint as an IT support engineer, I know only too well what plonkers people can be!

I work on the front desk even worse my customers are all from the truck/bus industry every minute their vehicle is off the road they loose money are forever on our backs!

With your air con what did they do re-gas, I have never had mine done and not sure what an air con service consists of?

 

[MikeO]

aimez

They drain the system, pressure test it and re-gas. Or so the Service Manager said.

Normal charge was £85, but on "special offer" as it's Winter time.

 

[Torquemonster]

My 04 Ibiza has done 70,000 miles.Still on it's original rear pads and discs.

First MOT,passed but with advisory'rear discs slightly corroded at edge'.(VAG specialist).
Second MOT,passed,again an advisory 'rear discs rusting on outer edges'(Seat dealer).
Third MOT,passed ,but no advisory.(Same VAG specialist).

They've been picked up in the last couple of services as well.'Heavily lipped and outer edge corroded'.They don't look pretty,but they work fine that's all that matters.

But with times being hard,and money tight,i'll not get them replaced until they fail the MOT,or(at service)- my trusted specialist warns me their dangerous and will fail an MOT.

So,i'd totally ignore those fast fit chaps.

 

[RUM4MO]

My 04 Ibiza has done 70,000 miles.Still on it's original rear pads and discs.

First MOT,passed but with advisory'rear discs slightly corroded at edge'.(VAG specialist).
Second MOT,passed,again an advisory 'rear discs rusting on outer edges'(Seat dealer).
Third MOT,passed ,but no advisory.(Same VAG specialist).

They've been picked up in the last couple of services as well.'Heavily lipped and outer edge corroded'.They don't look pretty,but they work fine that's all that matters.

But with times being hard,and money tight,i'll not get them replaced until they fail the MOT,or(at service)- my trusted specialist warns me their dangerous and will fail an MOT.

So,i'd totally ignore those fast fit chaps.

That's wierd, I'd have thought, if only to present a uniform front to "us" the MOT places would ever only add to the previous advisory list unless there was strong evidence of replacements having been fitted - strange but all we can do is pay up as no one is going to question them missing sometime off as nothing good will ever come of questioning them.

 

[RUM4MO]

RUM4MO
Slightly off topic (not by much I suppose) was not too happy to come out this morning and find one of the new tyres fitted yesterday was a good 10 pounds down! Pumped it up and it already looks to have lost air! O'dear another afternoon off to take it back in now.

Also.. while the D/S new tyre most definitely has had a new valve fitted, the P/S one (IE. the one looking to be going down) most definitely has not! Now I thought it was pretty much de-rigour to fit new valves when fitting new tyres?

One issue I did have with KwikFit over 30 years ago, was that I went in to get a very slow puncture sorted - just for convenience. At that time all that was normally done was to remove any sharp things from the tyre and fit an inner tube. That was done and when I went to pull away from traffic light a mile or so down the road, the car felt sluggish so I pulled off the main street. The tyre which previously had a very slow puncture was flat!! I fitted spare and destroyed the car jack (first time it had been used - it jammed and had to be kicked out of the way!), and returned to KwikFit, incidentally that outlet was being refurbished, and accused them of either messing up the repair (ie not checking for sharp items and removing them) or being negligent in as far as keeping the access to the tyre bays clear of building stuff - like nails. They eventually gave in and repaired it free but would not give me a free re-balance!!

On the subject of always fitting new valves - I would definately say YES, even after fixing a puncture on a nearly new tyre - if they did not fit one then I'd think that they were not following the tyre industry guidlines or best practise!

 

[MikeO]

Tyre update.

After pumping it up this morning, it was definately down a couple of pounds when I got back around 2PM from the job I was on. So sod it I thought and phoned garage and mentioned it. So I take it straight in and they removed and re-fitted it, saying it was a small leak from the rim. When I mentioned about fitting new valves when fitting new tyres, the guy behind the desk looked a little sheepish and said something like "they should/usually do"! Not the answer I was expecting to be honest and not very impressed over this issue. Be interested to see if the pressures held by tomorrow morning, I most definitely wont be a happy man if it's down again!!!

While being happy in the main with the work actually done. I do think it's the little things like this that take the shine off your experience with a garage. And yes I know "sh@t happens" as our American cousins would say. But when you add into the equation the fact that they slightly overfilled the engine oil and that there was also a small blemish under the passenger door (luckily not too visible) that I know damn well was not there before it was left at the garage (polished car the afternoon before).... And as it's the best part of an hour round trip for me (which they know) it would have been nice if the service manager had maybe said something like "sorry for the inconvenience Mr xxx". It's not like I had made a big issue over it, or gone off ranting, I even took the time to thank them for sorting it so promptly(civility costs nothing).

Got to be honest, I think it will be back to my local friendly Ford garage next time.

Life... you've got to laugh.

PS. RUM4MO I see you are South Scotland. If you don't mind me asking? East, or West. I'm Dumfries area and was just wondering if you had any garage that you would recommend?

 

[RUM4MO]

No, I'm in East, but friends of ours near CD go to Ayr I think for Seat, certainly not Arnold Clarke though!

 

[MikeO]

An old thread this one. But thought i would post an update...

Twelve months on and just had another MOT and surprise, surprise (ha) it sails through with no problems. Should point out that I'm on the same pads/discs (front & rear) that good old Nationwide Autocentre last year tried to convince me needed replacing (all round!). I even queried the mechanic at my local Ford garage who did the MOT this year, about the brakes and he said they were fine and braking efficiency was "well" within tolerance.

Not quite sure what this says about the garage that did the MOT last year!

Just goes to show... never trust anyone.

PS. They even managed to find the squeaking bush at the front and lubricate it for me. And added that it was fine (except for the squeak) IE. no play and not split etc. Yet another thing last years folks advised me to get replaced at great expense!

 

[Rory101]

That's wierd, I'd have thought, if only to present a uniform front to "us" the MOT places would ever only add to the previous advisory list unless there was strong evidence of replacements having been fitted - strange but all we can do is pay up as no one is going to question them missing sometime off as nothing good will ever come of questioning them.

Can they see the previous advisories when they do a new test?

On my own car (Merc) the dealer advised on scrubbed outer edges of front tyres. I don't use that car much and didn't change the tyres. At the next MOT (same MB dealer) it wasn't mentioned.

 

[RUM4MO]

Can they see the previous advisories when they do a new test?

On my own car (Merc) the dealer advised on scrubbed outer edges of front tyres. I don't use that car much and didn't change the tyres. At the next MOT (same MB dealer) it wasn't mentioned.

With the new computerised MOT system, I'd think that they will be able to "see" previous advisories raised under this new system as the advisories have referance numbers and they are quoted on the MOT pass certificate.