Brembo Piston Material and Bleeding Help!

[GlanzaV]

Did he use the pressure system first/every time?

There's a chance you can roll the master cylinder seal if you pump the brakes whilst bleeding?

 

[AntneeUK]

I don't know about the pressure system every time, I don't think so. Apparently he's found similar issues on the MkIV Golf forums and by the sounds of it, lots of people talk about rolling the seals but nobody appears to have actually done it, if you know what I mean. Almost like it's just an urban legend.

Anyway, if it was the seal, wouldn't the braking be getting worse? Because he's got it better and better and it's a 20 mile drive home and there was no sign of it deteriorating on the way. As I say, it's not terrible, it just doesn't feel as good as it did.

And as I'm writing this, the Mrs is telling me it's snowing... Dammit!

 

[6th.replicant]

Dunno whether they're cast or forged aluminium, but I do know that Brembo's calipers are actually manufactured by Bang & Olufsen.

Right..... that master of manufacturing cast and billet items...

Correct 1st time, B&O is indeed a "master of manufacturing cast and billet items".

Don't take my word for it, [EDIT]my source is What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision's consulting editor & the Gramophone's audio editor, Andrew Everard, who posted the following at the WhatHiFi.com forum[EDIT]:

"...Most companies would give a lot to have the kind of R&D facilities B&O has at its headquarters in Struer, and I know of very few manufacturers who actually make as much of the products they produce, right down to component level, rather than buying components in from third-party suppliers.

Why does B&O do all this, from metal extrusion, anodising and machining to even building its own disc drives rather than buying them in? Simple - it's all about the quality of the products - and it also explains why the company makes everything from brake calipers for Brembo to aluminium kick-panels for BMW to switchgear for Audi, and a whole load of medical equipment as well as the stuff we usually associate with the brand."

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/post/214759.aspx

 

[AntneeUK]

Let's put that topic in to perspective: http://community.whathifi.com/forums/2/214759/ShowThread.aspx

A forum post. Now, I know that Google isn't the absolute gospel (that's Wikipedia, isn't it?) but if you search for "brembo bang and olufsen", the very first post is this thread, which is weird, don't you think? The second is that forum post. Beyond that, without going pages and pages in, I see no evidence. Lets be fair, that same forum thread discusses how B&O make everything themselves, when is it not true that they use a lot of electrics from a high-street brand now, inside flashy exteriors?

I'm not saying that your statement is not the truth, but I can't find anything beyond that one guy that agrees with you, though admittedly their gospel page does say Additionally the companies expertise in aluminium manufacturing is available to other business for the production of non B&O products. That doesn't say that Brembo use them however

 

[AntneeUK]

Oh, and Brembo's gospel page says "The company is also known for their aftermarket automotive brake components, including calipers, drums/rotors, and brake lines. They are a provider of performance braking systems and components, and conduct research on braking systems. Brembo owns the foundries which produce their initial materials and supply the manufacturing plants. The company controls the whole production system from raw material through to distribution. Their quality assurance methods have been highly rated, and the company awarded QS9000 and ISO 9001 certifications."

 

[el dude]

There's a chance you can roll the master cylinder seal if you pump the brakes whilst bleeding?

Apparently, (on another thread) thats a load of rubbish.... sounds rediculous too considering the quality of the parts used in the whole 'braking package'..

The system is just rediculously hard to bleed when you've let it run dry.... the bleed screws on the master cylinder are very nearly in-accessable and they seem to me, to be the ONLY way of restoring the pedal feel...

Maybe the pressure bleed system makes it easier..?? i can see this system with a stiffer pipe (oh-er) to poke onto the bleed nipples from a distance working a little easier than my air-line suction system...(which was close to useless on this car)...

all fun anyway....learn new tricks as you go...

my dad's got a pressure bleed system, i may borrow that at some point and have a play..

Regards

Chris

 

[AntneeUK]

I'm still hoping to get a better understanding of this ABS thing too Chris. If I'm reading things properly, you use VAG-COM to open the ABS valves and then bleed it. Does that mean anything to you?

 

[el dude]

yep, i'm sure we could do that if you have the kit....

need some serious amount of brake fluid i think... i'm sure i read a ltr per caliper which seems just rediculous!...

Chris

 

[bruceR]

Antnee, I upgraded my front brakes and put Porsche calipers on. I had a ball-ache trying to get the brakes bled but eventually bit the bullet and phoned the local Skoda dealer - they pressure bled them 3 times and only charged £54 - happy as hell now
By the way you will have to bleed thru all 9 of the bleed nipples (2x Master Cylinder, 1x Clutch, 4x Front Calipers - inside ones first - 2x Rear Calipers)

 

[AntneeUK]

Thanks Bruce. Chris has bled all of those points but as above I'm assuming not under pressure. Chris, would it be a pain in the ass if you could borrow your dad's kit so we can have another go? I don't want an extra £50 charge on top of the MOT/service fee on the 4th

 

[6th.replicant]

Hey, my original post re Brembo/B&O was supposed to be a mere nugget (billet?!) of amusing trivia! However... [places pedant's hat firmly on head]

... I'm not saying that your statement is not the truth, but I can't find anything beyond that one guy that agrees with you...

As "that one guy" is What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision's consulting editor & the Gramophone's audio editor & a long-standing AV expert, TBH it's actually more a case of me agreeing with him. Indeed, I gladly cite him as my source for the info re Brembo/B&O.

Oh, and Brembo's gospel page says "... Brembo owns the foundries which produce their initial materials and supply the manufacturing plants. The company controls the whole production system from raw material through to distribution... "

Isn't the text in Brembo's gospel page, above, a wee bit ambiguous? Arguably, it could be interpreted that Brembo's foundries cast the aluminium billets that, in turn, are then supplied to 3rd-party specialists (eg B&O) for final machining?

Similarly, "The company controls the whole production system from raw material through to distribution..." could be interpreted that Brembo has company representatives/overseers seconded at its 3rd-party partners' manufacturing basses, which is the norm (my former brother-in-law worked for Ford, but for a while he was based at Lucas, one of the former's suppliers).

Anyway, must get back to more vital matters, such as watching tonight's (recorded) Strictly - It Takes Two to see how Chris H & Ola J have been getting on in rehearsals for tomorrow's Strictly Come Dancing final. Go Team Cola!

PS Anyone else finding that their LCR's handling is surprisingly sure-footed in the snow?

 

[AntneeUK]

Hey, my original post re Brembo/B&O was supposed to be a mere nugget (billet?!) of amusing trivia! However... [places pedant's hat firmly on head]

Ha ha, indeed, but I like to discuss stuff that I didn't know. As I said, I'm not saying that you're wrong, it just strikes me as one of those things that you'd expect more people to know about. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love B&O stuff, and I love Brembo stuff, so to have them both in one package is brilliant, but if I tell someone and they say "nah, you're pulling my leg", I'd like to have some kind of proof that isn't on a HiFi forum to show them

 

[6th.replicant]

... but if I tell someone and they say "nah, you're pulling my leg", I'd like to have some kind of proof that isn't on a HiFi forum to show them

Quite so, but the info source is not an armchair expert's post on any old hifi forum. Why not clarify by saying: "According to one of the editors at What HiFi, B&O manufactures Brembo's ..." Does it matter whether a recognised boffin such he imparts info on a pukka mag's forum or within its printed pages?

BTW, he is the type of journo who's invited to visit manufacturers' HQs to view/advise on products years before they hit the market, so he's probably well chummy with/has inside info from the large Cream Havartis at B&O.

 

[Muttley]

I'm not convinced by your argument, even if the poster is editor of a HiFi magazine. There is no independent confirmation I can find in either company's history, and on the face of it there is a poor fit between them - B&O are low-volume producers of luxury items wheras Brembo are standard fit items on production car, motorcycle and truck lines, high-volume (certainly by hifi standards) critical lead time items. Braking is also a safety-critical item, something that hifi isn't.

And in any case, "B&O make calipers for Brembo" doesn't mean they make ALL the calipers that Brembo sell, only that B&O make (or have made in the past) some calipers for Brembo.