K03s/K04 hybrid turbo - advice please

[ibizacupra]

CR Turbo's hybrid, reportedly used a K04 from RS6 installation CHRA, which is then made to fit in the K03 hotside. the compressor and and bearing assembly are K04. TIP is machined down so anciliaries fit, and in the main these are direct bolt on replacements. There are differences in charge pipe outlet on K03s with silencers and without, so you would need to check you get the right one.

Turbo Dynamics also offer a couple of hybrid options

 

[jamiebennett81]

Obviously you're spoiling for a fight. Instead, re-read what I posted. I never indicated "impossible". The tenor was more along the lines of "unwise".

No Damo is quoting from facts, figures and experience of being on this forum like myself and having learnt a great deal and been there and got the t-shirt, we at least know what we are talking about when it comes down to subjects like this

I suggest you do a search and at least your homework first.....

 

[Nautilus]

A funny attempt here:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=69968

we have taken the k04-023 out of a TT225Q and made a hybrid turbo that consists of the hotside from my K03 and the coolside from the K04...we've made some tests(not balancing it)and everything seems to be ok...

---------------

unfortunately it didn't worked out because everything was going wrong...thus the turbo sounded like it had problems

Now, why do I find strange the idea of matching a large compressor wheel (56mm) with a small turbine wheel (44mm common to small K03 and K03S)?...

~Nautilus

 

[adam cupra 20vt]

Going back to the K03s only being a 210bhp turbo........I've not really seen anyone with less than 210bhp with good supporting mods and a remap and most people see 230-240bhp on a stage 2.

Evidence is on the forum for all to see....

Also I don't think the tuning companys would excessively push the limits of a turbo behond its reach or they wouldn't be in business for very long would they.

 

[slappy_dunbar]

Thank you.

The K03S turbos have 44mm turbine wheel / 51 mm compressor wheel compared to a K04-001, so as we see the restriction is on the hot side. If a 56mm compressor would not fit a K03S housing, why not use the hot side from a K04-001 and get a 50/51mm turbo?.... Do the downpipe flange and manifold flange match a K03S manifold?...

(BTW, are there tuners who make this combo, K04 turbine / K03S compressor, because if they are the topic has already found a conclusion )

~Nautilus

The K03s and K04-001 share the 2075-series compressor wheel. And their hot sides are functionally identical. The K03s has a 45/40mm turbine while the K04-001 is nominally bigger at 46/42. Are you by chance proposing a hybrid using the 2075 compressor matched to a larger 50/42 turbine from a K04-02x?

 

[Nautilus]

Rightly so - if the compressor wheel is not a restriction, but the turbine wheel is, which would be the next logical step? Definitely not a larger compressor on the same turbine, even more mismatched?...

~Nautilus

 

[Damoegan]

Gt2871

 

[Nautilus]

Just like a K04-02x by itself, it doesn't fit bolt-on on K03-0052 ancillaries...

~Nautilus

 

[wisejason]

Miltek..

Stage 2 requirements are:

Turbo back exhaust
Forge TIP
Forge DV
High flow panel filter/open cone filter
A FMIC is recommended too.

I think without an FMIC a Stage 2 LC would stuggle to make good power that was smooth and didn't hold back. Logged mine in the week and it was showing 50+ with outside temps of 4; the SMIC is so blocked in.

IMHO I'd say a FMIC was a required component for Stage 2 on a facelift LC/FR.

I've seen plenty of ko3s cars making 220-240bhp and most have been running FMIC's.

 

[james walker]

i run a consistenty 234 bhp proven on rollers and worked on maf readings on stage 2 ko3s without fmic and running standard cat back.

 

[jamiebennett81]

i run a consistenty 234 bhp proven on rollers and worked on maf readings on stage 2 ko3s without fmic and running standard cat back.

I think his point was that, YES, you could run those sorts of power, but it wont be as sustained as a car running an FMIC instead

 

[james walker]

totally agree...

 

[ibizacupra]

i run a consistenty 234 bhp proven on rollers and worked on maf readings on stage 2 ko3s without fmic and running standard cat back.

Not wanting to ask inflammatory question, but were these rollers Dyno dynamics ones at all or another make?
curious thats all.
thx

 

[james walker]

no idea bill... ran at p-torque when will mapped it on stage 2 6 months ago.

not sure which will uses tbh.

edit i do have milltek dp and 200cell cat, just oem cat back.

other supporting mods aswell, just no fmic

 

[Damoegan]

P-Torque's rollers are Dastek..

 

[Mr OCD]

I think without an FMIC a Stage 2 LC would stuggle to make good power that was smooth and didn't hold back. Logged mine in the week and it was showing 50+ with outside temps of 4; the SMIC is so blocked in.

IMHO I'd say a FMIC was a required component for Stage 2 on a facelift LC/FR.

I've seen plenty of ko3s cars making 220-240bhp and most have been running FMIC's.

Completely agree... I've seen the temps quickly hit high temp figures when using SMIC for stage 1 so I'd say an FMIC was an essential component for stage 2...

In Summer the heat would be immense as would the power loss.

 

[jamiebennett81]

Completely agree... I've seen the temps quickly hit high temp figures when using SMIC for stage 1 so I'd say an FMIC was an essential component for stage 2...

In Summer the heat would be immense as would the power loss.

even in the summer with an FMIC on, you still notice the performance being laggier, but I fear to think what its like with an SMIC

 

[wisejason]

In the summer I was getting cf's of 4-7 across all 4 cylinders and it was the norm to see intake temps in the high 60's/70's. That was with Green panel and no cold feed.

OP - why did you choose an uprated SMIC over an FMIC?

 

[Nautilus]

Logged mine in the week and it was showing 50+ with outside temps of 4; the SMIC is so blocked in

Stock SMIC (which is common to all AUQ-engined cars on Golf Mk4 platform) sucks big time. When I've pulled it I wondered what kind of dumbass would build an IC with half of its surface plastic and a letter-sized core, and even more stupidly, fit it on a hot-running engine like the 1.8T.

I've replaced it with a BoostFactory! cubic SMIC, of all-aluminium construction on a Bell core. Total volume (core + end tanks) is about 8 liters, similar to a (not very large) FMIC. It fills the space in the fender almost completely. Original plastic shroud could not be cut to shape so I've cut it a bit away from the core and fit on it a polyfoam shroud as rigid and airtight as possible. Now all air flowing into the fender has to flow through the core because it has no other place to go. Also I've cut a bit of the plastic around the foglight to enlarge the holes through which air flows in the fender and glued aluminium-foil faced polyfoam on the plastic wall between the engine space and IC space to prevent the engine heat radiating back on the IC.

Now after a hard run in temperatures below 25 degrees C the IC is stone-cold, from 25-35 degrees C it has about the same temperature as a human hand. Never gets above 40 degrees C - for an uprated SMIC it's a pretty good job.

BoostFactory! site

~Nautilus

 

[Nautilus]

Dyno test performed today, still on K03 "S" turbo:

1st run: 229.4 (metric) hp at 5334 rpm, ~220 (metric) hp from 4700-7000 rpm, 353.4 Nm at 4240 rpm
2nd run: 227.0 (metric) hp at 6058 rpm, ~220 (metric) hp from 4700-7000 rpm, 358.9 Nm at 4082 rpm
3rd run: 230.5 (metric) hp at 4629 rpm, ~220 (metric) hp from 4500-6800 rpm, 355.3 Nm at 4578 rpm

Outside temperature ~18 degrees Celsius

Fuel used: (50:50 ratio) 99 RON + 101 RON

SMIC remained cold throughout the test and subsequent street run.

Software had been a Stage 0 / Stage 1 designed for stock cars. Supporting mods had been added over time.

List of mods available here:

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2364764&post2364764

Now I almost believe that 240 hp on a K03 "S" may be possible

Boost spiked and dropped at least twice in the mid-rpm range, which according to the mechanic meant that either I run too much boost, or the N75 has gone crazy, which they often do.

~Nautilus