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Faisal

UK's 1st Liquid Yello LCR
May 27, 2008
1,445
0
Most likely at work
iv been trying to follow this WMI stuff for a while,i know this sounds retarded,but what exactly does it do?iv heard of this before and would consider it but dont fully know what it is or how it works...

is it like nos?something that you have to fill up constantly?or is it permanant...like a supercharger or bigger turbo?

thanks :redface:
 

jonjay

50 Years of 911
Jun 27, 2005
5,843
1
Essex
Every article I've read says bar and plate offers superior heat rejection than tube and fin, leading to more consistent performance.

"A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. Any flow restriction is easily overcome by sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you can make room for it."

I'm only going by my own personal testing, the ebay core is not quite as tall as the Forge but is thicker, plus it gets 100% airflow to the front of it, not blocked by the crashbar at all.

Nothing wrong with the Forge at all, far from it, just putting my findings out there for all to see.
Thanks for sharing your findings. Gives food for thought to a lot of people.
 

Skorchio

600 Miles to a tank :)
Jan 23, 2007
1,570
1
Nr Milton Keynes
iv been trying to follow this WMI stuff for a while,i know this sounds retarded,but what exactly does it do?iv heard of this before and would consider it but dont fully know what it is or how it works...

is it like nos?something that you have to fill up constantly?or is it permanant...like a supercharger or bigger turbo?

thanks :redface:

Amazing what you find on google :)

Alcohol/water injection is a method for cooling the combustion chambers of engines by adding methanol/water mix to the incoming air-fuel mixture. This allows for greater compression ratios and largely eliminating the problem of engine knocking due to detonation. Many alcohol-water injection systems use a mixture of water and alcohol (usually 50/50), partly because the alcohol is combustible and will raise the octane level of the fuel. While water is not combustible, it has a greater capacity to cool the intake air temps down more than methanol alone. This effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel allowing performance gains to be obtained when used in conjunction with a supercharger or turbocharger, altered spark ignition timing, and increased boost levels.

Good work Rob, very affordable way to get a FMIC! If i was doing it again i would jump at it. Even selling the forge and doing this for a for extra pennys is tempting.
 

EL

Forever Alive
Mar 17, 2008
2,931
1
Bickley, Bromley
Rob do you think the WMI makes a massive difference when testing the two FMIC? What I am trying to establish is whether the difference between the ebay one and forge one would be so close if someone was running a car without the WMI kit
 

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
Rob do you think the WMI makes a massive difference when testing the two FMIC? What I am trying to establish is whether the difference between the ebay one and forge one would be so close if someone was running a car without the WMI kit
For the price difference you could run the cheap assed one and buy WMI kit, have it fitted and set up for cheaper than the Forge one
 

RobDon

Pro Detailer
WMI doesn't make a massive difference no, it would have been much the same running them without WMI, the cooling effect of WMI allows for more consistent power.

You have to consider £90 vs £700, but also bear in mind the Forge kit is a simple bolt on solution where the ebay coolers require some DIY effort.

A WMI kit is around £300 + £90 for the cooler = £390, still ALOT less than £700.

Some people prefer to have the bolt on solution and the Forge name and warranty behind a product which is perfectly understandable, but in this economic downturn people are also looking for more cost-effective solutions.
 

EL

Forever Alive
Mar 17, 2008
2,931
1
Bickley, Bromley
Thanks for the reply guys and a very valid point on the price difference even if you were to get a WMI kit. I am liking these kits more and more as everyone I know that is using it are saying how consistent the power is because of it
 

Scotty_b

Leon Cupra 300R
Jun 3, 2004
6,026
66
Hertfordshire
Rob have you thought about using the inards out of a little fridge (desk one) with an uprated fan (industrial ball bearing ones are £8) on the meth bottle to give cooling at a touch of a button? Would look cool too. I have a little fridge at work for my milk and the fan went so i got a new heavy duty from maplins and it now gets ice so does a bloody good job. Ive always thought about putting one on my intercooler or induction kit!
 

jonathanp

Full Member
Jan 5, 2005
736
0
Coventry
Rob have you thought about using the inards out of a little fridge (desk one) with an uprated fan (industrial ball bearing ones are £8) on the meth bottle to give cooling at a touch of a button? Would look cool too. I have a little fridge at work for my milk and the fan went so i got a new heavy duty from maplins and it now gets ice so does a bloody good job. Ive always thought about putting one on my intercooler or induction kit!

If you used a peltier effect to do the cooling it will also generate heat elsewhere, might not be a problem if you have airflow to dissipate the heat but you'ld also have to power the peltier cooler (probably many) to give sufficient cooling but then the power required might negate the affect of the cooling. Be interesting to see though
 

Skorchio

600 Miles to a tank :)
Jan 23, 2007
1,570
1
Nr Milton Keynes
Rob have you thought about using the inards out of a little fridge (desk one) with an uprated fan (industrial ball bearing ones are £8) on the meth bottle to give cooling at a touch of a button? Would look cool too. I have a little fridge at work for my milk and the fan went so i got a new heavy duty from maplins and it now gets ice so does a bloody good job. Ive always thought about putting one on my intercooler or induction kit!

Hehe, i thought about doing this using a compresser to cool a sync in the meth tank. Think its a bit overkill tho, maybe a duct from the inner wing, or cut out the metal behind the washer bottle, would get good cooling from there.
 

DPJ

...........
Dec 13, 2004
7,996
2
NN Yorks / Salento
www.seatcupra.net
Rob's thread maybe isn't the place to discuss this..... (I'll move it if you like Rob) but I don't see where you are coming from on cooling the methanol before delivery.

WMI injection works by latent heat evaporation, the heat from the charge air being lost in evaporating the mist droplets. Logging intake temps on wmi injection shows there is no need for cooling the wmi....
 

RobDon

Pro Detailer
I don't mind it being here. I can understand the theory, hence me putting ice packs on the tank, for the best cooling possible to spray ice cold water into the inlet tract. If the IAT sensor sees cold air coming in the ECU will advance the timing for more power.
 

DPJ

...........
Dec 13, 2004
7,996
2
NN Yorks / Salento
www.seatcupra.net
For molecules of a liquid to evaporate, they must be located near the surface, be moving in the proper direction, and have sufficient kinetic energy to overcome liquid-phase intermolecular forces. Only a small proportion of the molecules meet these criteria, so the rate of evaporation is limited. Since the kinetic energy of a molecule is proportional to its temperature, evaporation proceeds more quickly at higher temperatures. As the faster-moving molecules escape, the remaining molecules have lower average kinetic energy, and the temperature of the liquid thus decreases. This phenomenon is also called evaporative cooling. This is why evaporating sweat cools the human body. Evaporation also tends to proceed more quickly with higher flow rates between the gaseous and liquid phase and in liquids with higher vapor pressure. For example, laundry on a clothes line will dry (by evaporation) more rapidly on a windy day than on a still day. Three key parts to evaporation are heat, humidity and air movement.

A warmer wmi mix will evaporate more quickly than a cooler one. The quicker evaporation will cool the air charge more than cold unvaporised droplets would....
 

Feel

Veedubya 'velle
Jun 12, 2003
4,918
2
Midlands
i've probably just talked myself into moving my nozzle further away from my TB. :D

It depends where you want the evaporative cooling to take place... Do you really want it all done before the combustion chamber?

Remember, close to the TB for timing, close to the Intercooler for cooling

Edit: Mind you, there's no substitute for suck it and see.
 

DPJ

...........
Dec 13, 2004
7,996
2
NN Yorks / Salento
www.seatcupra.net
It depends where you want the evaporative cooling to take place... Do you really want it all done before the combustion chamber?

Remember, close to the TB for timing, close to the Intercooler for cooling

Edit: Mind you, there's no substitute for suck it and see.

You want most of it done before it gets to the temp sensor.
 
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