New Cupra R

[lordgibbness]

Everyone seems to be stuck on looking at BHP figures , its the torque that does the speed , regardless whether it will do 60 in 6 or 5.9 seconds , its on the road that counts and how it drives.

When people say it should have more power they usually assume that's by increasing the torque though. There's only two ways to get more power: through increased torque or more revs. But just to clear up your comment - torque doesn't give you speed - torque multiplied by engine revs gives you power. So in actual fact a flatter torque curve with lots of revs would be the most drivable. People are always misinformed that high peak torque is a good thing when it really means diddly-squat without seeing the torque curve.

 

[Al]

in actual fact a flatter torque curve with lots of revs would be the most drivable. People are always misinformed that high peak torque is a good thing when it really means diddly-squat without seeing the torque curve.

Yep.

The likes of the Astra VXR is pretty peaky figures wise, but the power vs torque curves I have seen for the K04 2.0T at stock, stage 1, stage 2 and stage 2+ are anything but peaky. The torque is fairly consistent from spool to 5500 or so rpm and max power is made not far after that point after a steady increase through the rev range.

 

[robdf2]

When people say it should have more power they usually assume that's by increasing the torque though. There's only two ways to get more power: through increased torque or more revs. But just to clear up your comment - torque doesn't give you speed - torque multiplied by engine revs gives you power. So in actual fact a flatter torque curve with lots of revs would be the most drivable. People are always misinformed that high peak torque is a good thing when it really means diddly-squat without seeing the torque curve.

I agree but the point i was trying to make is having a car running 300 bhp but only 200 lb/ft of torque is going to be pants to drive , people get caught up in BHP figures alone which doesnt alone make a fast car or a great car.
lots of people for get the important torque figure.
BHP figures are for pub talk.

 

[Jacey Boy]

Torque is the way forward, my old STi was running 383BHP but had 428lb/ft!!

 

[lordgibbness]

Torque is the way forward, my old STi was running 383BHP but had 428lb/ft!!

And this is exactly my point...

 

[jonjay]

Why would they bring out an R?

The Ibiza has FR, Cupra & Bocanegra.

Surely the Leon should follow this pattern.

I think they have been pretty consistant

mk1: Cupra, Leon FR , Cupra R
mk2: Leon FR, Leon Cupra std and k1 and now the Leon Cupra R

There are quite clear in their strategy to be fair.

I bet the Leon Cupra R will get the same discs as the TT-RS 373MM discs.

We can only hope cant we.

I for one would be very interested to see how this turns out. Could mean me stop modding my car and move over the the cupra r. I doubt they will be releasing a new leon for another 2-3 years yet until a major chassis change by VW/Audi.

 

[InfernalBadger]

I agree but the point i was trying to make is having a car running 300 bhp but only 200 lb/ft of torque is going to be pants to drive , people get caught up in BHP figures alone which doesnt alone make a fast car or a great car.
lots of people for get the important torque figure.

300bhp with 200lb/ft of torque would just mean that you have a high revving car. Civic Type R's and RX8s are great cars to drive but they have much lower torque than BHP.

Like lordgibbness said, peak torque is pointless, it's the amount of torque the engine can sustain at higher revs that matters.

Hence why diesels are generally not as nice to drive as petrol cars, huge torque but it runs out so quickly which means it's not as useful (imo, no flames please diesel drivers ). My old FR TDI had around 300lb/ft of torque but wasn't nearly as good to drive as my RX8 with only 156!

 

[lordgibbness]

Yep and there's also gearing to consider - as this effectively acts as a torque multiplier. There really are a whole host of things that make a car good to drive - peak figures alone don't tell the whole story.

Back to the new LCR for a minute - is it likely to be Frankfurt when SEAT release the details in full? Doesn't that take place in late in the year - November or something?

 

[SlipStream]

The Frankfurt Motor Show 2009: 15 - 27 September 2009

 

[Gabba]

Some OFFICIAL information from the hungarian SEAT dealers: It will be another Cupra, the name will be : CUPRA R with 265hp ! The price will be higher than the Cupra's price, by 1900-2000 Euro in Hungary !

The dealers can order the Cupra R from July ! These information absolutely official. ( Here in my hand the pricelist ! )

I haven't any information about the rear, and front bumpers,and alloy wheels. Also the Aero kit ( I hope,won't be the Aero Kit on the Cupra R.....)

 

[wild willy]

Does this mean that either the FR or the cupra will get the boot or is seat going to keep three performance petrol models running.

 

[S.E.C.T.]

Seems unlikely that they will drop one as the models have just be updated. Looks like 3 performance models to me

 

[wild willy]

What about the statement one of the sites says in that the new Cupra R is getting a new turbo. An upgrade on a K04 is going to be a hoot.

 

[InfernalBadger]

Seems unlikely that they will drop one as the models have just be updated. Looks like 3 performance models to me

Well, 2 performance models and the FR

 

[S.E.C.T.]

Well, 2 performance models and the FR

Thats just mean!

 

[Al]

Well, 2 performance models and the FR

Or one performance model, the Cupra and the FR

 

[Poverty]

What about the statement one of the sites says in that the new Cupra R is getting a new turbo. An upgrade on a K04 is going to be a hoot.

These car magazines never have a clue what they are talking about. Its gonna be a audi s3 engine.

 

[GREY 225]

It is just single piston, but dont let that fool you. The discs are 345mm and the brakes are very much up to the job of stopping the car. They are better than the Brembos on the LCR and cheaper for parts too. Take a shot of a MK2 LC to see for yourself.

I think the brakes on the cupra are over assisted which gives the feeling of being powerfull.
I only think seat stayed away from brembo was down to internal politics and cost, they have just used the parts bin from other models.
The brakes on the corsa i drive are over assisted too and 'feel' more powerfull, but there is little feel to braking.
The 4 pot brembo which is a very ridged caliper is in my opinion better than a single piston sliding caliper which will suffer from flex and heat.Why do all makes of cars which want to uprate the brakes look to multi piston fixed calpiers for increased performance, from the likes of AP or Brembo it is always multi piston.
I dont think the brakes on the cupra were a step forward from the LCR, more a cost exercise from seat despite what they said about the brembo's.

 

[Poverty]

I think the brakes on the cupra are over assisted which gives the feeling of being powerfull.
I only think seat stayed away from brembo was down to internal politics and cost, they have just used the parts bin from other models.
The brakes on the corsa i drive are over assisted too and 'feel' more powerfull, but there is little feel to braking.
The 4 pot brembo which is a very ridged caliper is in my opinion better than a single piston sliding caliper which will suffer from flex and heat.Why do all makes of cars which want to uprate the brakes look to multi piston fixed calpiers for increased performance, from the likes of AP or Brembo it is always multi piston.
I dont think the brakes on the cupra were a step forward from the LCR, more a cost exercise from seat despite what they said about the brembo's.

They are over assisted but dont be fooled by that being a mask of their potency or lack off. The cupra, with the standard road tires doesnt need more powerful brakes, and the tires grip is the next weakest link in getting the car to stop.

Its been well documented with the cupra that the brakes are awesome, and in comparos against other cars the journos always commented on how powerful and fade free and consistent the brakes are lap after lap whilst on abuse mode round a circuit.

 

[GREY 225]

They are over assisted but dont be fooled by that being a mask of their potency or lack off. The cupra, with the standard road tires doesnt need more powerful brakes, and the tires grip is the next weakest link in getting the car to stop.

Its been well documented with the cupra that the brakes are awesome, and in comparos against other cars the journos always commented on how powerful and fade free and consistent the brakes are lap after lap whilst on abuse mode round a circuit.

Im not saying the cupra brakes are poor mate, just that a multi piston fixed caliper is better any day.Most car makers standard brakes have the ability to over come the tyres and activate the ABS at any speed. So why bother replacing the caliper for a more powerfull one which will only overcome the tyres sooner or easier.The heat generated with multi piston calipers is disipated better than with a single piston.
My point is, if your looking to uprate your brakes you go to ap or brembo and look at multi piston fixed calipers, not look at single piston.