Broken Turbo, what options? (~£2000)

[wild willy]

Im following this with interest too lol, I emailed a few companies including JBS and turbo technics and the only ones to get back to me are owens, they want £700+VAT to do the work, is there a difference between a £500 and a £700 job or does it involve the same processes and components wherever I go?

Im away for 3 weeks soon and it would be an ideal time to have the turbo out of the car while im not using it, wish the companies would email back!

Any thoughts on the comparisons between the JBS and Backdraft turbo?
And is there NO high flow standard placement turbos out there except the dire ebay attempts!?

Lastly, cant the turbo and manifold flanges be ported slightly to take a tiny bit more away from the fact the KO4 is such a limitation? Or will removing even small amounts cause cracking?

Thanks everyone

James the k04 hybrid ain't such a poor option as some of the less informed make out. 1.5 bar @6500 rpm is not to be sniffed at for £500.
But i agree all day long, if you have the dosh go the full BT route.

 

[wild willy]

haven't really taken much notice of the maf tbh, but I recall seeing a 222 on the scanguage not sure if this can be compared to yours though as I was told my MAF has been scaled in the CC software and you're running the larger housing.

I'll do a log in the weekend in vag-com for maf only to try and get some good samples. I have some logs of boost, lambda and timing but they're pretty big I'll need to pick out the good bits if you want to have a look

222g/sec is good and would indicate around 290 bhp.
I'm now running a stock maff tube and indicating 235g/sec @ 1.3 bar red line. (actuator pressure detuned). I'm not sure why CC would need to scale the maff as its not near its limits using a K04 hybrid.

 

[james333]

But i agree all day long, if you have the dosh go the full BT route.

Thats exactly it, I dont have the money for rods etc and I dont want to spend that sort of money on a 7yr old car, I do however want to spend a few £ extra as I will need a new turbo soon anyway. Can I get another turbo and manifold for the same price as a hybrid and manifold (when jbs or whoever starts selling?

Wild willy, whats your full engine spec and do you have a power graph? Im this far away from getting the hybrid treatment.

And why machine the housing rather than cut back the blades!? I dont even know what this does lol!

 

[jonathanp]

james there is no point going the JBS route if you're not gonna change your rods, especially if you want the manifold as well. If you don't get your rods done you can't push it much more than a standard k04 might get better mid range but peak power will probably be around the same

 

[james333]

this is a copy of my email I just recieved from Turbo Dynamics:


Hi James,

We can indeed hybrid your existing turbo. The only thing I would say is that from experience we have seen a lot of cracked turbine housings on these turbo's which result in a new unit as the turbine housings are more expensive than the turbo. I have attached the spec sheet for your turbo. We can look at hybriding your unit for a start price of £495 for stage 1, £550 for stage 2, £595 for stage 3 and £650 for stage 4.

The power figures quoted are for the turbo only and any other modifications would change these. If you wanted to go ahead with either modification we would need the unit for approximately 4 days. We could have a brand new one to you in 3 days.

I hope this information helps


K04 Hybrid Turbocharger
Borg Warner KKK Turbochargers – Part 5304-970-0020/22/23 – Watercooled
VAG Part No. – Various - 2000->
APLICATION : Audi TT 225 Bhp, Audi S3 225 Bhp, Leon Cupra R 1.8T 225 Bhp
Stage1 Stage 2 Stage3 Stage4
MD299 MD212 MD364 MD421

Brief Specifications: -

MD299 High flow K06 Compressor wheel, C.N.C. re-profiled compressor housing, 360 degree
thrust bearing, modified watercooled bearing housing, lightening of turbine wheel for
faster ‘spool up’, modified turbine housing, up-rated turbine seals. Other ‘blueprinting’
modifications. APPROX 260-280 BHP Max recommended boost pressure 18-20 PSI

MD212 High flow K06 Compressor wheel, C.N.C. re-profiled compressor housing, 360 degree
thrust bearing, modified watercooled bearing housing, cut back turbine blades, lightening
of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’, modified turbine housing, up-rated turbine seals.
Other ‘blueprinting’ modifications. APPROX 280-300 BHP Max recommended boost
pressure 20-22 PSI

MD364 Modified compressor housing inlet, C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow
compressor, 2283 Spec “Billet Aluminium” Lightweight Compressor Wheel, modified
seal plate, 360 degree thrust bearing, left hand thread turbine wheel with cut back turbine
blades, lightening of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’, modified turbine housing, uprated
turbine seals, up-rated actuator optional. Other ‘blueprinting’ modifications.
APPROX 320-330 BHP Max recommended boost pressure 22-24 PSI

MD421 Modified compressor housing inlet, C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow
compressor, 2283 Spec “Billet Aluminium” Lightweight Compressor Wheel. modified
seal plate, 360 degree thrust bearing, K04 Large trim left hand thread turbine wheel with
lightening of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’, C.N.C. modified turbine housing for
higher flow, up-rated twin turbine seals, 0.8 Bar up-rated actuator. Other ‘blueprinting’
modifications. APPROX 340-360 BHP Max recommended boost pressure 24-26 PSI.

 

[jonathanp]

hrm interesting I wonder what the JBS05 is as it will handle 2 bar apparently

 

[ibizacupra]

MD421 on a stock exhaust manifold flowing that amount of air to support 340-360bhp! yikes

 

[james333]

do you think these guys are not to be trusted then bill? I dont believe the figures as I know what people are getting in real life!

 

[ibizacupra]

TD make turbos which many people sell.
MD321 spec is on paper good. but boy that manifolds got some work to flow that..

 

[wild willy]

For comparison purposes heres my spec. Also includes ceramic coating, port and polishing. Sadly this manufacturer is no longer in business.


“For this hybrid we start with an OEM KKK K04-023 turbocharger and modify both the compressor and turbine side. On the turbine side we clearance the exhaust housings which is used to compensate for the increase in flow through the turbocharger. Without this when upgrading the compressor side we tend to see an issue where there is too much air trying to flow through the stock turbine housing. Clearancing allows us to increase the flow of the turbocharger without drastically increasing the lag time.



On the compressor side we use a larger KKK compressor wheel that allows us to flow more air/boost at a higher efficiency than the stock K04 compressor wheel. The larger wheel has quite a few advantages over the stock wheel. First is its ability to run at a higher boost level and do so safely. We are able to run upwards of 2bar while still staying in healthy shaft speed ranges and efficiency ranges. Another advantage is its ability to sustain flow through to redline. When in chipped or modified form, the stock turbo has a tendency to run out of breath before it reaches redline, with the new compressor wheels ability to flow more, we can eliminate that problem. The final advantage of the new compressor wheel is it’s ability to run at a lower shaft speed than the stock wheel. Running at a lower shaft speed is going to reduce heat within the turbocharger, extend the life of the turbocharger, as well as put the rpm’s back in the range that the turbine wheel was designed to run in.



For the build of the turbocharger, we balance the wheels individually as well as together in a rotating assembly to beyond factory tolerances. The turbocharger is then blueprinted during the build to ensure that all of the parts, though new from the factory, are within factory specifications.”



Maximum boost is a tricky question because the turbocharger and compressor wheel are going to be able to put out up to ~27/28psi, but I don’t know that I would recommend that boost level on a stock engine."

 

[james333]

TD make turbos which many people sell.
MD321 spec is on paper good. but boy that manifolds got some work to flow that..

If we dis regard the current manifold and say, with an uprated TIP and manifold, is this an ok budget set up, i will eventually change the DP but dont want to go any further than that!

Or is there a better solution for 2k including mapping? what does it cost for an IHI, manifold and downpipe?
Thanks

 

[ibizacupra]

£3k-£4k for IHI inc mapping

 

[james333]

£3k-£4k for IHI inc mapping

I think it is going to have to be hybrid then, I really cant spend any more on this car!! I need to decide who to use now though!

 

[George S3]

I think it is going to have to be hybrid then, I really cant spend any more on this car!! I need to decide who to use now though!

hi james want to do a 2 way group buy on this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audi-TT-S3-Su...14&_trkparms=72:1689|66:4|65:12|39:1|240:1318

and a MD421 and a remap

wonder what power we really would get from it bill must have a idea?

 

[JBS Sales]

After reading through the thread there seems to be a few people looking into the options of Backdraft,Turbo Technics,CRT,Turbo Dynamics and ourselves for a hybrid K04 - from what i can gather all the companies including ourselves offer approx the same power outputs from the hybrid.

The main thing to consider is what has actually been done to the K04 to gain the extra 30+bhp over the stock K04.

Many people consider the figure of 300bhp on the hybrid along with DP,Sports cat,TIP,Air Filter and FMIC to be the most that the stock Exhaust mani can flow,this about right without running high EGT's and suffering extensive heatsoak.

With the addition of a hi-flow mani like the one we are currently developing you should be able to gain an extra 20-30bhp over the stock mani maybe more if the EGT's down creep up.This means that 320+ is capable but you will have to watch the torque so you dont start bending rods.

If you want more then you could look at the IHI or GT28 route as Bill has already mentioned,price would be dependant on modifications already made to the car

Hope the above helps

 

[ibizacupra]

hi james want to do a 2 way group buy on this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audi-TT-S3-Su...14&_trkparms=72:1689|66:4|65:12|39:1|240:1318

and a MD421 and a remap

wonder what power we really would get from it bill must have a idea?

Not seen that spec of TD turbo, only seen the lesser spec one..
The claims I personally dont think will turn into reality without a manifold to support the flow. When a high flow k04 fitment manifold is available then we might see what one is capable of. The sustained boost levels at the higher rpms if true should equate to the 'hoped' for power levels. As a bolt on, I just dont see it, and would not want to run one on a stock bottom end either.. those are some high numbers.

Have TD got any compressor maps and wheel dimension sizes they can quote to help explain the spec of these? might be able to estimate the power potential from these..

Will they be reliable pushed to these levels?
answers on a postcard.

non BB CHRA after all

 

[dyson87]

i know my friend has got a ko4 up there never been fitted he looking for around 400 ono if that any good to you i would of if that was mine

 

[George S3]

Not seen that spec of TD turbo, only seen the lesser spec one..
The claims I personally dont think will turn into reality without a manifold to support the flow. When a high flow k04 fitment manifold is available then we might see what one is capable of. The sustained boost levels at the higher rpms if true should equate to the 'hoped' for power levels. As a bolt on, I just dont see it, and would not want to run one on a stock bottom end either.. those are some high numbers.

Have TD got any compressor maps and wheel dimension sizes they can quote to help explain the spec of these? might be able to estimate the power potential from these..

Will they be reliable pushed to these levels?
answers on a postcard.

non BB CHRA after all

I kno I dont trust it. if it can give you 360bhp why do people get gt28s?

What do you think of that mani down pipe and cat looks to cheap to be any good?

 

[wild willy]

After reading through the thread there seems to be a few people looking into the options of Backdraft,Turbo Technics,CRT,Turbo Dynamics and ourselves for a hybrid K04 - from what i can gather all the companies including ourselves offer approx the same power outputs from the hybrid.

The main thing to consider is what has actually been done to the K04 to gain the extra 30+bhp over the stock K04.

Many people consider the figure of 300bhp on the hybrid along with DP,Sports cat,TIP,Air Filter and FMIC to be the most that the stock Exhaust mani can flow,this about right without running high EGT's and suffering extensive heatsoak.

With the addition of a hi-flow mani like the one we are currently developing you should be able to gain an extra 20-30bhp over the stock mani maybe more if the EGT's down creep up.This means that 320+ is capable but you will have to watch the torque so you dont start bending rods.

If you want more then you could look at the IHI or GT28 route as Bill has already mentioned,price would be dependant on modifications already made to the car

Hope the above helps

well said.
Wish your manifolds would happen sooner though.

 

[wild willy]

I kno I dont trust it. if it can give you 360bhp why do people get gt28s?

What do you think of that mani down pipe and cat looks to cheap to be any good?

It looks ok but they don't have a very good name. Also the description is misleading, it refers to both K04 and K03 Turbos.