hybrid turbos

[andypandypoos]

Where do people get their hybrid turbo's from, and how much do they cost? I'm after a Turbo Dynamics stage 2 hybrid from my mk4 Cupra - I've been in touch with TD direct and after telling them what car it was for (again) I've heard nothing from them.

I've also been told that the hybrid for a PD160 is not the same as a PD130 hybrid, but I thought PD130 hybrid was a modified PD150 turbo, which started life as the same turbo on my PD160

 

[majesty78]

Well, the basic turbo from BPX and ARL are 100% identic, unless other tell it is not so*g*, these are both GT1749VB turbos with identic turbine/compressor measurements.

The turbo from 130hp is a GT1749VA which is a little smaller than VB, so the max. flow through turbine is more restricted if you make a hybrid out of it than if you use a VB as a basic turbo.

With yout PD160 turbo, aka GT1749VB you can reach about 15hp more than others using a 130hp turbo.

All this said is meant to a stock turbine size!

If you use stock turbine, any turbo shop could fab you a GT1752V hybrid, if they would want to*g*

If you want custom made turbine and compressor, there are only a little number of companys who are capeable of doing special modifications.

Greets, Alex

 

[andypandypoos]

I just want an "off the shelf" type hybrid, but what's confusing me is this; if a PD130 stage 2 hybrid is a modified version of my current turbo, other than rotating the housing how is it different to a hybrid for a PD160? Do they start off with a different turbo?

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Well, the basic turbo from BPX and ARL are 100% identic, unless other tell it is not so*g*, these are both GT1749VB turbos with identic turbine/compressor measurements.

The turbo from 130hp is a GT1749VA which is a little smaller than VB, so the max. flow through turbine is more restricted if you make a hybrid out of it than if you use a VB as a basic turbo.

With yout PD160 turbo, aka GT1749VB you can reach about 15hp more than others using a 130hp turbo.

All this said is meant to a stock turbine size!

If you use stock turbine, any turbo shop could fab you a GT1752V hybrid, if they would want to*g*

If you want custom made turbine and compressor, there are only a little number of companys who are capeable of doing special modifications.

Greets, Alex

Seat used the KKK KP39 on the PD130 not a Garrett.

 

[jasengine]

I bought a brand new GT1749VB (150PD) turbo from Germany and then sent it to CR Turbo Engineering for the hybrid treatment. Its now a GT1756 so should be good for over 200bhp

 

[majesty78]

Seat used the KKK KP39 on the PD130 not a Garrett.

I know, but only an completly idiot would use a crappy kkk kp39 and try to make an hybrid from it.

These kkk turbos are only designed for maximum profit, nothing else.

Greets, Alex

 

[majesty78]

I bought a brand new GT1749VB (150PD) turbo from Germany and then sent it to CR Turbo Engineering for the hybrid treatment. Its now a GT1756 so should be good for over 200bhp

A GT1756V is not a very smart thing to do. Even with 52mm compressor you outflow the turbine at about 3700revs, so that you can not regulate boost with the vnt mechanism anymore. With even bigger compressor like the 56, this will be an issue even earlier in rev band.

You will have to high pressure which you can only controll with reducing injection quantity starting at about 3300revs. If you dont reduce, boost will by far overshoot requested targets.

Greets, Alex

 

[brad1]

I bought a brand new GT1749VB (150PD) turbo from Germany and then sent it to CR Turbo Engineering for the hybrid treatment. Its now a GT1756 so should be good for over 200bhp

Have you got a bigger injection pump too?

 

[WW_VRS]

I just want an "off the shelf" type hybrid, but what's confusing me is this; if a PD130 stage 2 hybrid is a modified version of my current turbo, other than rotating the housing how is it different to a hybrid for a PD160? Do they start off with a different turbo?

I would give TurboDynamics a call direct, they were very friendly to me when I did that at the time, and they will be able to advise which turbo is right for your car/engine

 

[andypandypoos]

I would give TurboDynamics a call direct, they were very friendly to me when I did that at the time, and they will be able to advise which turbo is right for your car/engine

they were my first port of call; I emailed them about a hybrid turbo for "my mk4 Ibiza Cupra TDi" and they replied asking what Ibiza I had, specifically the year, engine code and output. I gave them that info and haven't heard anything in almost 2 weeks, although I did email them again late last night.

Formula One have been helpful so far and unless I hear any horror stories or someone appears with a far lower price I'll more than likely be buying from them. Then there's the mapping; on a personal front I'd like to got to Ross for fitting & mapping, but whilst I'm more than happy with how the car drives after Mike from Motech mapped it I'm not convinced I want a generic map with a hybrid turbo

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Wel

The turbo from 130hp is a GT1749VA which is a little smaller than VB, so the max. flow through turbine is more restricted if you make a hybrid out of it than if you use a VB as a basic turbo.

With yout PD160 turbo, aka GT1749VB you can reach about 15hp more than others using a 130hp turbo.
Greets, Alex

Seat used the KKK KP39 on the PD130 not a Garrett.

I know, but only an completly idiot would use a crappy kkk kp39 and try to make an hybrid from it.

These kkk turbos are only designed for maximum profit, nothing else.

Greets, Alex

Just pointing out that this is a Seat forum and we are talking about Seat cars which used a KP39 on most of the PD130 range of cars not a GT1749VA like you stated. So your advice was wrong.

 

[majesty78]

And because OP of this thread is talking about hybrids, i mentioned the Garrett device, which in any case would be the better choice when replacing the turbo. As stock or as hybrid, doesnt matter.

But you are right, from factory they come with kkk device.

Greets, Alex

 

[john_tdi]

give td a ring, very helpfull. I wouldn't bother with emails, such pain with big ish companies.

I called on a monday afternoon and was told I could have a brand new turbo that thursday, and to be fair it came fedex on that day too.

 

[andypandypoos]

yeah that's what my brother's now telling me, he's dealt with them on the phone and they were superb - just not as convenient as email (i'm lazy)

 

[jasengine]

I would give TurboDynamics a call direct, they were very friendly to me when I did that at the time, and they will be able to advise which turbo is right for your car/engine

Well, I don't want to bad mouth TD and I expect they are a very high quality engineering company, but I was advised I had a turbo that I didn't actually have on my engine as standard and it took quite some time to convince them otherwise Which didn't inspire confidence!

 

[jasengine]

Have you got a bigger injection pump too?

No not yet. I will see how it goes with a remap first...

 

[majesty78]

Jasengine, you will have to take case about your boost from about 3300revs on. You will see that duty cycle from n75 tries to reduce boost but hardware wont follow.

 

[Gavin NI]

Majesty78...

What is the problem with the 1756?? I've just had my 1749vb converted to this spec and must say the car even with a generic map for now goes very well. I have noticed on my boost gauge that spike has dropped from 30psi to 24 psi and hold has went down from 25-26psi to 23-24psi.
As far as I aware the stage 2 TD is a 2275 spec comp wheel and the stage 1 is similar to the CR Turbos spec.

Also may I add that TD wanted £700 to do my turbo and would only give me a 12 month warranty if I used a tuner that I really really don't trust!!! CR charged me £450 all in inc a full 12 month warranty.

Also what should I get logged on vag-com the next time i've a laptop in the car??

 

[majesty78]

As i said the exhaust turbine of your turbo is by far to small for a compressor like the 56mm one.
You con not divide exhaust turbine and compressor wheel from each other, they are ONE system, working on the same shaft.
So if you put big compressor on a turbo with small turbine like gt17vb your compressor will, and i guarantee for that, it will give you serious boost issues under WOT and high revs. With a given amount of exhaust gas and temperature, your exhaust turbine makes a given amount of revs, and, because the compressor is on the same shaft, the compressor does the same revs, creating boost pressure.

With VNT mechanism you LIMIT the amount of exhaust gas flowing through turbine at higher load/engine revs to LIMIT boost. BUT the VNT mechanism will not be capable to reduce boost ENOUGH when using such big compressor with such small turbine. So beginning from about 3300 revs your boost will rise over requested level because of to much exhausts flowing through turbine unless the vnt request will show a 100percent duty cycle.
As posted before you already have this issue with Gt1752v, beginning at about 3700revs.

The only way to work against this issue is to reduce injection quantity, which them makes the benefit of a big compressor absolutely senseless except from turbo lag...

Watch measuring block 11 and you will see...

Greets, Alex

 

[WW_VRS]

Fitting the turbo should be pretty easy going, one or two bolts on the manifold are a tad interesting to get to but it isn't that bad. I would use a custom map for sure, to make the most out of it