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TFSI hesitation/missfires at high rpm's

cupra_k1

Guest
I had same problem with mine mate, I got the Revo map put on mine and had this problem after a week.... emission light came on on the dash, took it back to Revo bloke, put it in diagnositc machine and it came up with a misfire in the 3rd cylinder at 6967rpm creating 5 faults.... said that SEATs have some problems with it (cupras)... never had it since as ive never hit 7krpm since!
 

jon-tfsi

Active Member
Mar 29, 2008
277
0
I finally had a similar issue solved after months of changing components one at a time to rule things out and here's how it played:

Initially the misfire began not long after having the AC pump replaced when it decided to seize up and explode - however it soon became apparent that this had nothing to do with it. We thought it could have been a loose pipe or something nudged during the AC replacement, but no, after an hour inspection there was nothing loose at all.

The misfire firstly seemed to be either after the car had been running for an hour or so under normal low power driving - or it'd be there straight from the off regardless of temperature/fuel type/air conditions etc.

It then began to be almost predictable - drive it with no power applied, changing below 3k revs and it would be fine for a 30mins / 1hr but as soon as you stop at and traffic or pull away applying power on even the slightest of hills and it was there.

Finally this occurred with an engine check light flash and then a permanent engine check light. This resulted in it firing on three cylinders and could barely even drive it the last mile home without pulling over, ignition off and starting up again. Fortunately the dealership had seen another TFSI with no mods experience exactly the same issue which helped to rule the re-map out.

Over 5 months this is what was changed:

1) One coil pack changed on the effected cylinder - misfire still present after this. :banghead:

2) All spark plugs upgraded - misfire still present :banghead:

3) All coil packs changed - misfire still present :banghead:

4) Injector 4 replaced (all seals etc too) - misfire gone and driving better than ever. :thumbup:

The CAM and CAM Follower issue hasn't appeared in my car at all, an '06 model TFSI with 30k and a remap for the last 20k of those.

I must have read 1,000s of posts and threads dedicated to this misfiring issue across the VAG group with the 2.0 TFSI engine, spoke to three different tuning houses using three different remap brands and had the suggestion of upgrading the fuel pump numerous times from different tuners. DanGB provided advice which was well appreciated to help rule things out.

Based on my experience alone there are different components that may fire up similar fault codes although that doesn't necessarily mean that the "normal" component that fails with be the culprit.

There's been wiring looms changed, multiple coil pack changes, fuel pump changes, CAM Follower replacement, fuel pump upgrades etc...and even still there are cars with all those changes that may bring a misfire to the table. After reading so much over the last few months one thing applies regardless - ignition should be as simple as: Fuel Pump, Injectors, Coil Pack, Spark Plug and anything else your TFSI wishes to throw out of its pram!

Besides my absurd rant - i also have CC Phase 1 and i'd bet my badger it isn't caused by the map directly but because under mapped conditions the engine is being asked to do more which is why it's more apparent. If you've had a twintercooler since your map maybe it needs to be tweaked to take advantage of the significantly lowered charge temps?

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this Jamfool.
I have every faith in the remap and Custom code, like you said its the map highlighting an underlying problem. Just spoke to custom code today and they suggested some more things to log on VAGCOM.
I checked the cam lobe and replaced the follower 5k ago and everything was fine. The follower had lost some of its black coating but this is nothing out of the ordinary.
Checked it again last week whilst installing the Autotech HPFP. And it looked like new.
Hopefully the logs done tomorrow will pinpoint the problem.
Im hoping its not an injector tho as there is a lot of labour time involved in changing them and its not a job i would trust many garages to do.
I removed the injectors from an S3 engine a couple of weeks ago and it was a b@tch of a job to remove the inlet manifold. Will require a delicate touch on rebuild too.
 

jamfool

Search + Read = ANSWERS!
Aug 15, 2005
37
0
Nottingham
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this Jamfool.
I have every faith in the remap and Custom code, like you said its the map highlighting an underlying problem. Just spoke to custom code today and they suggested some more things to log on VAGCOM.
I checked the cam lobe and replaced the follower 5k ago and everything was fine. The follower had lost some of its black coating but this is nothing out of the ordinary.
Checked it again last week whilst installing the Autotech HPFP. And it looked like new.
Hopefully the logs done tomorrow will pinpoint the problem.
Im hoping its not an injector tho as there is a lot of labour time involved in changing them and its not a job i would trust many garages to do.
I removed the injectors from an S3 engine a couple of weeks ago and it was a b@tch of a job to remove the inlet manifold. Will require a delicate touch on rebuild too.

No problem - i've been meaning to post my findings but it was only solved last Thursday and i've given it a kicking over the weekend to make sure it was stable. Fingers crossed the injector has solved it. Just bare in mind that when mine was misfiring, even when out on trial with a laptop plugged in running diagnostics with one of the guys from the JBS it didn't show anything out of the ordinary because sods law it behaved for a change! If you're heading to JBS for the work i may try an meet you there to see the other mods you've done and how they sit...?
 

jon-tfsi

Active Member
Mar 29, 2008
277
0
I may well end up going to JBS. I will give you a shout if I am
I will be there soon anyway as im going for a K04 upgrade. I had planned to go for the upgrade in a couple of months when im working again and have more cash but if its an injector im not paying the labour charges to remove the inlet manifold twice to fit the S3 injectors, so the K04 may be going on sooner than expected.
Either way i need this problem solved so i can move forward with the car.
The P Flo may be available after the upgrade if your interested?
 

ares

Active Member
Jun 28, 2008
282
0
Greece, Athens
I had same problem with mine mate, I got the Revo map put on mine and had this problem after a week.... emission light came on on the dash, took it back to Revo bloke, put it in diagnositc machine and it came up with a misfire in the 3rd cylinder at 6967rpm creating 5 faults.... said that SEATs have some problems with it (cupras)... never had it since as ive never hit 7krpm since!

Exactly, and putting a larger intercooler just make things worse. Others never had a problem with misfires but when they replaced the intercooler with a larger one or went for a twintercooler misfires just surfaced. The colder the weather the more frequent the misfires. We had a GTI MY08 with stage 1 in our group with no problems at all, he installed an APR intercooler and misfires started occuring. Either you remove the intercooler or go for a stage2 (or stage2+) software upgrade.
 

jon-tfsi

Active Member
Mar 29, 2008
277
0
I totally agree the car is crying out for a software upgrade and your points are taken but i need to get to the bottom of this problem first.
The missfires occured long before the intercooler and other bits went on.
They occured right after the map was put on and before any other mods at all.
Tomorrow should make things a little clearer.
Thanks for all the input, suggestions and sharing similar problems:)
 

mailat

Guest
Hey,

I had the exact same problem on my car once I got the Revo Stage 2 map on my car. On 4th and 5th I had almost no timing retard until 5500-6000 rpm and then I had almost 6 degrees timing pull and the misfire appeared as a flash of the engine check and felt like a fuel cut. The solution to this was "Fuel Injector Cleaner". I used STP, one with half a tank and another one with a full tank and now it's perfect. Also changed the spark plugs but the misfire disappeared long before that. Try that, maybe it helps before you change injectors or other expensive stuff through the engine.
 

leviathan18

Active Member
Jan 30, 2007
452
1
Venezuela, Caracas
well vag com told me i had fuel issues so i started by the basics, fuel pumps, the cam follower was pretty nice so i went to the fuel filter it was pretty dirty so i changed it same issue, so i thought if the fuel filter was dirty probably the tank is dirty too maybe the fittings are dirty... i removed the back seat checked the fittings and they were clean so i decided to remove the fuel pump when i took it out i noticed it was a filter in the inlet a little bag that isnt removable, it was all black so i cut off the filter and tested the car and it was fine then i removed that fuel pump and bought a new one.

it took me 3 months to resolve the issue
 

jon-tfsi

Active Member
Mar 29, 2008
277
0
Hey,

I had the exact same problem on my car once I got the Revo Stage 2 map on my car. On 4th and 5th I had almost no timing retard until 5500-6000 rpm and then I had almost 6 degrees timing pull and the misfire appeared as a flash of the engine check and felt like a fuel cut. The solution to this was "Fuel Injector Cleaner". I used STP, one with half a tank and another one with a full tank and now it's perfect. Also changed the spark plugs but the misfire disappeared long before that. Try that, maybe it helps before you change injectors or other expensive stuff through the engine.

Im going to give that a go!!
I put some Maguires injector cleaner through a year ago. I had some halfords vouchers burning a hole in my pocket (christmas present).
I will put some more through and see if that helps.

I did some logs today. Im not sure what the information means so have emailed it to JBS to translate. Hope they can work out whats going on
 

zyklon

Guest
Im going to give that a go!!
I put some Maguires injector cleaner through a year ago. I had some halfords vouchers burning a hole in my pocket (christmas present).
I will put some more through and see if that helps.

I did some logs today. Im not sure what the information means so have emailed it to JBS to translate. Hope they can work out whats going on

Hello. Solutions of the problem mifires at high rpm? me, I like a Cupra Revo stage 2 +, KMD pump kit, intake DBilas, 2.75" downpipe Seat Sport and also gives a high speed misfire fault, 4th, 5th and 6th in 6600. He has looked around and not found the cause.
 

BeezerDiesel

Minus a Diesel Beezer
Aug 3, 2002
1,852
0
Exeter
Visit site
Hello. Solutions of the problem mifires at high rpm? me, I like a Cupra Revo stage 2 +, KMD pump kit, intake DBilas, 2.75" downpipe Seat Sport and also gives a high speed misfire fault, 4th, 5th and 6th in 6600. He has looked around and not found the cause.

REVO had problems with their stage 2 Cupra misfiring, have a word with them about it as it may need the settings adjusted.
 

DanGB

Who need's a Diesel....
Feb 12, 2006
3,772
2
London
Hello. Solutions of the problem mifires at high rpm? me, I like a Cupra Revo stage 2 +, KMD pump kit, intake DBilas, 2.75" downpipe Seat Sport and also gives a high speed misfire fault, 4th, 5th and 6th in 6600. He has looked around and not found the cause.

which cylinders?
 

zyklon

Guest
Are in the cylinder 3, and sometimes also 2 cylinder.
The strange thing is that I know other TFSI Cupra revo stage 2 + with same preparation and not fail.

I fault the DTC. seems to lower the temperature of water is normal?

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 11152 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 21:39:01

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 6648 /min
Load: 10.6 %
Speed: 167.0 km/h
Temperature: 82.0°C
Temperature: 46.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 930.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

000771 - Cylinder 3: Misfire Detected
P0303 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 11152 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 21:39:01

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 6648 /min
Load: 10.6 %
Speed: 167.0 km/h
Temperature: 82.0°C
Temperature: 46.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 930.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V
 

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
3,605
2
location , location
i would say its an injector problem , a lot of S3's have had the same problems , you could try injector cleaner in your fuel tank , by the looks of it the dealers just change injectors to fix the problem , have a read over on audisport.net
 

Al

Active Member
Aug 29, 2005
7,331
9
Pretty weird that early Cupras I know of that have gone up to Stage 2+ running maximum boost and have none of these issues. I guess something must have changed along the line somewhere between early 2007 cars these newer ones with the issues.
 

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
3,605
2
location , location
and btw my car is running fine now ever since my fuel pump was replaced after the top sensor got snapped off , so i may have had a faulty fuel pump , now its the car it should have been 10 months ago , oh well happy days.
 
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