Can an air filter be too large?

[caveo]

Kkk

 

[jamiebennett81]

PMSL!!!

ok thanks guys, just wanted to hear that it wont cause a loss in power

I think if it's too big to fit in the bay, I will try routing it down the side behind the bumper

 

[lofer]

Caveo you have been asking for trouble tonight haven’t you! Lol Oh dear!

 

[jamiebennett81]

I have posted a thread under Forges section, as thinking about it, it will fit in the bay, but with a real squeeze but because it will be so big, it may be drawing in hot air as well

so I will be looking to route some SS pipework down the side and behind the bumper where the filter can sit

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=193031

 

[D.K]

You could try a custom exhaust center to get the pipe made, That's what I did on my last car.

 

[storeyd]

This is my theory. Having previously worked for 12 years designing pneumatic systems.....

There will be a limit to how big you should go with a filter. This is governed by several factors.

1. The restriction in the intake pipe. Determined by the minimum diameter (plus bends and surface finishes if you wanted to go really accurate!)
2. The maximum amount of air being used by the engine (max flow rate)

This will determine the negative pressure in the pipe

Next..

3. The resistance of the filter. As we all know the greater the surface area the lower the resistance. This is why cone filters are prefered. Also the type of filtration material will effect this.
4. Heat soak of the filter. Obviously a larger surface area will soak more heat from the engine bay having a negative effect.

There will be a critical point where decreacing flow resistance (increacing filter size) will become detrimental to BHP as the heat soak takes effect.

So in my opinion the best set up would be a design with minimal surface area and the least flow resistance. This is why keeping your filter clean can make a difference.

Also try fitting a heat soak shield such as an aluminum fabrication around the filter.

And I would not fit any metal intake pipes as this will absorb the heat from the engine and transfer it to the intake air. An insulated pipe would be best.

 

[D.K]

So size is'nt every thing

 

[jamiebennett81]

This is my theory. Having previously worked for 12 years designing pneumatic systems.....

There will be a limit to how big you should go with a filter. This is governed by several factors.

1. The restriction in the intake pipe. Determined by the minimum diameter (plus bends and surface finishes if you wanted to go really accurate!)
2. The maximum amount of air being used by the engine (max flow rate)

This will determine the negative pressure in the pipe

Next..

3. The resistance of the filter. As we all know the greater the surface area the lower the resistance. This is why cone filters are prefered. Also the type of filtration material will effect this.
3. Heat soak of the filter. Obviously a larger surface area will soak more heat from the engine bay having a negative effect.

There will be a critical point where decreacing flow resistance (increacing filter size) will become detrimental to BHP as the heat soak takes effect.

So in my opinion the best set up would be a design with minimal surface area and the least flow resistance. This is why keeping your filter clean can make a difference.

Also try fitting a heat soak shield such as an aluminum fabrication around the filter.

And I would not fit any metal intake pipes as this will absorb the heat from the engine and transfer it to the intake air. An insulated pipe would be best.

thanks

will be moving the filter away from the bay to reduce heat soak and the only part of the SS piping that will be getting warm is where it connects to the MAF, failing that, some kind of different piping which wont absorb the heat as much

thanks for that insight though, interesting read

 

[jamiebennett81]

So size is'nt every thing

I am gunna get a ribbing for this at the next RR or meet aren't I

 

[D.K]

I am gunna get a ribbing for this at the next RR or meet aren't I

Now "Ribbing" is something else mate

And you you will

 

[Willie]

This is my theory. Having previously worked for 12 years designing pneumatic systems.....

There will be a limit to how big you should go with a filter. This is governed by several factors.

1. The restriction in the intake pipe. Determined by the minimum diameter (plus bends and surface finishes if you wanted to go really accurate!)
2. The maximum amount of air being used by the engine (max flow rate)

This will determine the negative pressure in the pipe

Next..

3. The resistance of the filter. As we all know the greater the surface area the lower the resistance. This is why cone filters are prefered. Also the type of filtration material will effect this.
3. Heat soak of the filter. Obviously a larger surface area will soak more heat from the engine bay having a negative effect.

There will be a critical point where decreacing flow resistance (increacing filter size) will become detrimental to BHP as the heat soak takes effect.

So in my opinion the best set up would be a design with minimal surface area and the least flow resistance. This is why keeping your filter clean can make a difference.

Also try fitting a heat soak shield such as an aluminum fabrication around the filter.

And I would not fit any metal intake pipes as this will absorb the heat from the engine and transfer it to the intake air. An insulated pipe would be best.

So basically with an amazing source of cold air and zero hot air getting to it its still possible to have too big a cone??

 

[jamiebennett81]

Now "Ribbing" is something else mate

And you you will

doh, didnt even see that one coming

DOH i have done it again!

So basically with an amazing source of cold air and zero hot air getting to it its still possible to have too big a cone??

but it will only draw in the air it can take, regardless of how big the cone is I thought?

just as you said, having the minimal amount of hot air as possible to improve induction

 

[Willie]

but it will only draw in the air it can take, regardless of how big the cone is I thought?

just as you said, having the minimal amount of hot air as possible to improve induction[/QUOTE]
Exactly, but perhaps I'm missing something here
Having not designed pneumatic systems much

 

[D.K]

There's 2 ways to find out fit them both and log it with Vag-Com or do a rolling road session

 

[jamiebennett81]

There's 2 ways to find out fit them both and log it with Vag-Com or do a rolling road session

I might contact AMD and see what they say, if they could make something up

I will see what Simon says, or the Essex branch

DK, who is it that you speak to down at the Essex branch?

 

[D.K]

I'm going to Essex tomorrow mate so I'll have a word with Shaun or you can ring him

 

[storeyd]

So basically with an amazing source of cold air and zero hot air getting to it its still possible to have too big a cone??

Yes because it will be so heavy that it will increase engine resistance!!!!!

No, but seriously, there will also be a critical point where decreacing the filter resistance will have so little effect on the pressure in the pipe and therefore little effect on the flow rate that its just not worth it.

 

[Willie]

So basically a big cone with a great cold air supply, no hot air getting to it and well cleaned will be the best.
So Jamie, go for it, it'll be a laugh, lol
And perhaps with good results

 

[jamiebennett81]

I'm going to Essex tomorrow mate so I'll have a word with Shaun or you can ring him

going to Essex or AMD....as Essex is quite a big place to go for a random visit

thanks mate, I will give Shaun a call tomorrow - do you think this is something he could take on?

scared to contact Simon at AMD, I think he does not want to see me again for a while (joke)

but I am not sure the Woking branch would do this, as its a different type of client they tyically deal with, but will ask Simon anyway

 

[D.K]

Ha I'm going to AmD in Essex

Shaun will be able to RR it, have they got a RR at Woking ???