Diesel vs Petrol FR - Which is quickest?

[flakmunky]

Despite the petrol having almost 20% more power, people are trying to convince themselves that the 2 cars are equal. They aren't. The official figures show that the petrol out performs the diesel in every test; sprint, in gear, top end, etc.

I agree there is very little in it but the OP asked which is quicker. The answer is the petrol.

With the petrol version the 0-60 sprint time is just over 10% faster, the 50-75 time is 15% quicker in 5th and 6th. The 1km sprint (0.62 miles) is closer, but the petrol is still faster - a shade over 5% faster.

Well, I think you all are forgetting that Seat dont use the petrol for the touring cars anymore for thier first teams, they use the diesel and its 20-30 bhp down on the petrols but won its first race easily in WTCC. Diesels are definitly quicker on the road, no competion coming out of a bend or up a hill and on the road thats where it counts. Yes you might get left by a few yards at the lights but a decent driver would be back in front at the next bend.....

But we aren't discussing the WTCC cars, we are discussing the road going FRs!

I may be missing something here, but the figures show that the petrol is quicker in gear as well, so how are the diesels 'definitely quicker on the road'?! I think you are confusing the torque kick over a narrow rev range for faster acceleration. See my earlier post re higher rpm.

As for 'wringing its neck' - petrols are designed to rev faster and develop their power at a higher rpm than a diesel - so it may sound like it is being thrashed to a diesel driver - try sitting in a Type-R!!! You'll think it is going to explode!!!

At the end of the day, the petrol is quicker but less economical. The diesel is slower but more economical. Don't try and convince yourself otherwise.

Now, the real issue is which colour is faster... I think a BLACK TDI would beat a RED petrol hands down!

fM

 

[LeonGTI]

The petrol is 197bhp and the diesel 168bhp which is only around 15% difference but with diesel having much greater torque.

Also, with the majority of FR TDI's coming out at around 175-180 bhp and subsequent jump in torque too, this drops to around 10% difference in power.

Those performance figures would be getting closer i'm sure....

 

[Haddock]

The petrol is 197bhp and the diesel 168bhp which is only around 15% difference but with diesel having much greater torque.

Also, with the majority of FR TDI's coming out at around 175-180 bhp and subsequent jump in torque too, this drops to around 10% difference in power.

Those performance figures would be getting closer i'm sure....

The petrol's will no doubt come of the rollers with higher figures too - and to be honest figures off rollers can almost always be taken with an almighty pinch of salt - Jace's FR tdi showed 197bhp on superchips rollers - I wish it was true as I have the same car - but its highly unlikely..

The petrol will always be quicker... unless your pulling a caravan!!


Chris

Edited to add: One last point though - the cars are so closely matched that a well piloted TDI could easily be as quick or quicker than the Petrol

 

[flakmunky]

It's 17.25% more power with the petrol.

I am aware of the higher bhp figures on rolling roads. The petrols can also show similar power gains but we should use the official figures and make the assumption that these are averages so statistically errors and extreme cases will be mitigated as much as possible.

The diesel is still slower, no matter how you try and convince yourself otherwise!

But as I said, it is a marginal difference and in some cases (1km sprint) it is so slight as to be un-noticeable.

Edited to agree with Haddock's edit.

 

[LeonGTI]

168/197 = 85.3%, thus 14.7% difference.

I want a TSI but think I probably couldn't afford to run it over a TDI!

 

[flakmunky]

Leon - you are correct. I could alter my post but that may make people think I harbour intelligence...

And I wouldn't want to do that!

I came at it from the other direction: (168/100)*117.25 = 196.98

 

[LeonGTI]

it's all good fun

 

[Thorgen]

The TFSI has 200/170 = 17.6% more power than the TDI.
The TDI has 170/200 = 15% less power than the TFSI.
Both above are correct, it's just which way you want to compare it. Math 1-0-1.

 

[flakmunky]

It depends what spin ya wanna put on it...

Down to the impotant debate:

The real issue is which colour is faster... I think a BLACK TDI would beat a RED petrol hands down!

 

[flakmunky]

Oh, no... Now I'm quoting myself.

I'll get my coat...

 

[jonjay]

Forget about percentages. What i would like to add is VW/Audi always make there figures higher than normal.

For example my mk1 fr is rated to do 0-60 in 8.9seconds? I seriously dont think that is the case. I had a few run ins with 1.8T 180BHP versions and in gear I actually pulled on them when standard. **EDIT** although mine came out 170BHP on two seperate rollings, dyno lottery i know...

I will say my gut feeling on this thread however is that the FR mk2 Leon would be faster than the diesel.

 

[Haddock]

It depends what spin ya wanna put on it...

Down to the impotant debate:

Originally Posted by flakmunky
The real issue is which colour is faster... I think a BLACK TDI would beat a RED petrol hands down!

Absolutely

I'm looking at going to the Nurburgring later in the year - any red Petrol owners fancy the trip???

Chris

 

[LeonGTI]

Have just received this, it's apparently a customer review of FR TDI Leon, any thoughts?:

"Aha - this thread is the perfect excuse to have a bl00dy good old moan about the SEAT Leon FR Tdi.

Due to a change in work circumstances (i.e. more mileage) and a desire to save a few quid to do up my house I recently swapped my splendid Focus ST for one. This was THE WORST MISTAKE OF MY MOTORING LIFE.

Despite being seduced by the initial test drive, after a few weeks I can now say that this car is terrible imho.

It sounds like a 20-year old sierra diesel (or a tractor)at idle/low revs and drones at higher revs. All the power/torque comes at once making it difficult to pull away smoothly from roundabouts - you get hardly any acceleration followed by being thrust up the road like a scalded cat. Wet, damp or icy conditions mean that the traction control light flashes like a coucil house at Christmas, accompanied by some very unpleasant 'juddering' if you wish to make any decent progress at all. The ride is truly abysmal - someone needs to tell SEAT (and plenty other manufacturers for that matter) that rock hard does not equal 'sporty'. Hit any slight bump/pothole with the power on and you again get the traction control. The interior quality is poor and (despite having only a couple of thousand miles) it rattles like my wife's old '89 Pug 205. The lights (front and rear!!) all mist up in the wet/cold. The stereo is laughable. The icing on the cake is the current combined mpg figure of 32.7 (it should do 47 odd).

DO NOT BUY ONE. I will be changing it for something petrol very, very soon"

hmmmmmm

 

[flakmunky]

Well what did he expect?! Buying a car that is:
a) a high powered turbo diesel,
b) gives the user some feedback through the steering wheel as to the road surface (my biggest gripe with the ST)
c) has an ECU which assumes the driver has some degree of intelligence and may ease off slightly when the wheels are starting to lose traction... and
d) driving it like he stole it ALL the time resulting in poor fuel economy. It still must be better than the 20 - 25 mpg he would be getting out of the ST, assuming he was driving that in a similar manner

I thought driving the ST was like having your hands in Marigold's filled with porridge...

lol! Saying all of that, my choice was between the ST and the FR and in the end the deal I got was better on the FR... I may well try an ST next time round!

 

[flakmunky]

Absolutely

I'm looking at going to the Nurburgring later in the year - any red Petrol owners fancy the trip???

Chris

I would take you up on it, but my car being Black AND Petrol would prolly lap you...

 

[hundleton1]

now what about a remaped FR TDI? pushing 200BHP

 

[flakmunky]

If it ain't black... no chance

 

[Michael B]

The petrol is 197bhp and the diesel 168bhp which is only around 15% difference but with diesel having much greater torque.

Also, with the majority of FR TDI's coming out at around 175-180 bhp and subsequent jump in torque too, this drops to around 10% difference in power.

Those performance figures would be getting closer i'm sure....

^^ Dont forget that power is a product of torque and revs (put simply)

Interesting discussion folks, nice to see no flaming going on


As for the review of the FR TDI a few posts back, by the fella who changed from an ST. He has a point, the FR TDI gets let down big time by the surge of power when the turbo kicks in. It would be nice to be able to floor it from word go like in the petrol, instead I find myself short shifting in 1st and 2nd, just to find third - this is when you really can let her at it.. Though by this stage I fear the petrol would already be gone into the distance

 

[Jace]

Jace's FR tdi showed 197bhp on superchips rollers - I wish it was true as I have the same car - but its highly unlikely..

Its true, although mine is that extra special version of Black Magic







But seriously, I'm looking forward to trying her on another set of rollers, maybe on the SC ones again would be better, different temp & etc pressure, plus the extra miles loosening her up, & then see what the result is.....

 

[Haddock]

Its true, although mine is that extra special version of Black Magic


But seriously, I'm looking forward to trying her on another set of rollers, maybe on the SC ones again would be better, different temp & etc pressure, plus the extra miles loosening her up, & then see what the result is.....

lol...

Need to get mine on the rollers and re-mapped this year....