GTI 30 vs Leon Cupra

[chris_m]

Think i'd quite easily choose the GTI30 to be honest. Better built, not as harsh a ride (yet still as agile), looks better, and will keep its value MUCH better than the Leon. Golfs do in general, but the Anniversary editions inparticular.

Just have a look at the prices still on the 25th Anni's, and consider that its a 5yr old car.

 

[Syphon]

Found this vid:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=62Mb1nIqPqI&mode=related&search=


Scott

 

[Poverty]

They're never 1500kgs mate.. That how much the R32 weighs along with it's 4WD train and heavy 3.2 V6..
The GTI weighs 1336kgs with the Cupra weighing 1376kgs.. Gives them both around 172bhp/tonne.. That's going by the Cupra having 7bhp more.. But I heard they were the same engine with no differences.. Could be wrong though..
What are the differences mate, can you shed any light? Same with the S3 too.. What are the differences, any ideas?
Nice result with yours by the way? How you getting on with it? You had it mapped yet? How does it compare with the Toledo? Sooooo many questions.. Ha!

S3 is a class above the leon and golf. Different setup engine. Good for 300hp after a remap.

 

[chris_m]

S3 is indeed in a class above the other two, but then it should be, its also in an entirely different price bracket. As nice a car as it is, its still a hatchback with a 4pot.... and given how good the GTI is, theres no way id pay £27k basic, plus options for the S3.

 

[Ben CTR]

S3 is a class above the leon and golf. Different setup engine. Good for 300hp after a remap.

The car yeah, but i'm on about the engine..
I thought the Edition 30 and the Cupra remapped to 300bhp too????

 

[DanGB]

It seems they all have identical engines, just a different map

 

[Poverty]

S3 engine is different to that of the leon and golf. different turbo to start with along with other bits. I will see if I can find detailed specs for both engines.

 

[ents]

Think i'd quite easily choose the GTI30 to be honest. Better built, not as harsh a ride (yet still as agile), looks better, and will keep its value MUCH better than the Leon. Golfs do in general, but the Anniversary editions inparticular.

Just have a look at the prices still on the 25th Anni's, and consider that its a 5yr old car.

well... better built? explain please. As almost all surveys show VW has lost its quality loooong time ago. I agree its more interesting but I like the minimalistic feeling and purity of the Leon interior. But Golf has quality feeling to it (doesn't mean it actually is better built). Looks better? Totally disargee. Leon is one of the better looking hatches of today. Golf is nice (I was a long time Goff fashionado) but really boring compaired to smooth lines of Leon. Its boring outside as Leon is inside I guess. Golf keeps its value better? Well it also costs MUCH more when new so by percentige wise I wouldn't be so sure. What comes to VW Anniversary models its seems really money milking to me. This 30 Anniversary model especially 'cos next years standard GTI's should be better equipped and with stronger engines so why bother. I also dont like "colour coding" of 30th Anniversary model - it makes the car really bland. I'd rather go for standard Golf, make some real personal tuning and thats that.

 

[Poverty]

Mate, you are not correct there. The Ed30 and Cupra are identical and the spec of the parts according to Etka shows the S3 is too, but the compression ratio on the S3 is different. There has been no answer as to why this is yet though.

If I was considering a 3 door Edition 30, I would probably stump up the extra couple of grand and get an S3 and enjoy the 4x4 system. My current car shows that I chose a Cupra over an Ed30, one of the reasons being price and the other that the MK5 Golf is soon to be obsolete.

Etka must be wrong somewhere? As I know from audi specs the engine in the S3 is meant to be quite different. Can you do a screen print of etka?

 

[DanGB]

They should all have the same k04 type twinscroll turbo

 

[willyd]

I was in front of a chick in an FR today who braked from about 20mph to standstill. I couldn't understand why her 4way flashers were on, but now I know - and that answers your question too.

 

[Poverty]

Not on this computer mate - someone else showed me the part numbers of various parts on the S3 vs Ed30 and Cupra from Etka.

However it has been discussed on this forum and there have been extracts from Etka posted on here to prove it. I am sure Dan might have the link though

From what I gather these are the differences between the S3 engine to that of the Leon/Golf.

A pic

The turbocharger has an enlarged turbine and compression rotor generator.
Stronger pistons and connecting rods, and a more reinforced cylinder block.
Higher pressure/enlarged injectors.

Not too sure whether it has a modified intercooler though. Apparently the engine remaps to 320hp now.

 

[Poverty]

I think you are comparing the 200PS K03s 2.0T found in the FR TFSi and MK5 Golf GTi vs the S3 engine, and not the 230/240PS K04 2.0T found in the Cupra and Ed30 mate.

I think you might be right. Im just curreently trying to find some detailed info on the golf/leon unit. Although there will still be two problems, one is that the S3 supposedly remaps to a extra 20hp and the compression is different. Audi increased the compression for a reason but I cant remember why at the moment. Or more so the compression increased for a reason. What boost are cupras running at?

 

[Poverty]

The S3, Cupra and Ed30 all remap to around 305-310bhp though mate.

Ok I give up. Im just gonna ask one of the audi boys see if they can shed any light on the compression ratio differences then!

 

[chris_m]

well... better built? explain please. As almost all surveys show VW has lost its quality loooong time ago. I agree its more interesting but I like the minimalistic feeling and purity of the Leon interior. But Golf has quality feeling to it (doesn't mean it actually is better built). Looks better? Totally disargee. Leon is one of the better looking hatches of today. Golf is nice (I was a long time Goff fashionado) but really boring compaired to smooth lines of Leon. Its boring outside as Leon is inside I guess. Golf keeps its value better? Well it also costs MUCH more when new so by percentige wise I wouldn't be so sure. What comes to VW Anniversary models its seems really money milking to me. This 30 Anniversary model especially 'cos next years standard GTI's should be better equipped and with stronger engines so why bother. I also dont like "colour coding" of 30th Anniversary model - it makes the car really bland. I'd rather go for standard Golf, make some real personal tuning and thats that.

Wasn't meaning to wind anyone up! But take your Leon Goggles off mate, it has its shortcomings, like all cars.

VW lost its quality? They might have lost their direction in the mid to late 90's... but the latest models are pretty impressively put together. The new GTI is very well built with quality materials and fitment, its a lovely place to be. The old Leon was pretty much pinched from the A3 in terms of interior, with just some tacky switchgear. The new Leon might be unique to the Leon, but you cant tell me that all the plastics are top notch, and that it doesnt rattle? I had a Cupra for a couple of hours and it had more rattles than my 4yr old Leon - and this was a car with 900 miles on it.

The Golf costs MUCH more than the Cupra? At last check, in basic spec, there was just a few hundred pound in it.

The Anniversary might very well be a money trick, but they are worth it as they are quicker, better specced, will hold its value significantly better, and offer a bit of exclusivity on our roads, not common these days.

They might very well up the standard GTI's power, but itll be 230 and no more. Just like the last model, where the 180bhp 1.8T came in alongisde the 150bhp late on in the models life.

Im only saying it how i see it...

 

[phil3012]

I'm conused at the comments that GTi 30 and Cupra are similar in price.

To bring a Golf GTi or Edition 30 upto Cupra spec you are looking at spending a lot of money. The Golf (especially the Ed 30) has a few nice features above the Cupra but your looking at £23,000 for a GTi or well over £24,000 for an Ed 30 by the time you have put Cruise Control, Xenon Headlights etc on (that's for a 5 door in metallic).

SEAT options are a lot more reasonaly priced too. I was going to get a standard GTi (think the Ed 30 sold out in March) but was never keen on the interior and it was nothing special to drive. Instantly feel in love with the Cupra, love the interior and the Leon in FR form was a better drive than the GTi. The Cupra is that but more special but you pay for it.

Agree with the last comments about rattles on the Leon. But my dealer happily sorted mine out for me this week.

I have also heard new Golf is out mid next year, apparently it is too expensive for VW to build in it's current form. Think I read somewhere that it takes twice as long to build as a Leon or other cars in that class.

 

[Moley RUFC]

That was one thing i was going to mention. The new Golf will be out mid 2008. Personally i wouldn't want to be driving around in an old shape car for the shake of waiting to either get and older model far cheaper or buy a new model anyway

 

[phil3012]

Regarding the Edition30, you can still order new ones. Keith (on this forum) just did.

My local dealer told me in May that they had sold out almost straight away... It would have been difficult enough to get hold of a normal GTi at the time.

I wonder if they have decided to build some more as it was supposed to be a lmited run of something like 1000 or 1500.

Still listed on the VW website though, so doesn't suprise me that you can still get them.

 

[Feel]

On the engine differences, read page 1:

http://www.superchips.co.uk/roadtest/VW Driver May07 Golf GTI Edition30.PDF

 

[DanGB]

Yes we already know the differences between the 197hp and the higher engines, but we are after the differences between the 230/240 and 265 engines.