Stability on High Speed Bends

[Oliveracc]

My LCR has Koni FSDs along with front and rear Eibach ARBs. For the most part the grip is phenomenal and goes round corners like it's on rails. However, I have noticed that on high speeds bends at 70mph+, such as a long tightish bends on a motorway, that the car doesn't feel very stable.

It becomes more apparent the faster you go. The front feels pointy and willing to turn in with lots of grip but the rear of the car feels a bit 'floaty'. I.e. the rear doesnt feel like its planted to the road and lacks downforce.

Has anyone noticed the same on their LCR? I am talking specifically about high speed tightish bends not lower speed cornering. Perhaps its down to the standard springs being too soft and the centre of gravity being a bit too high?

 

[owen lcr]

i dont know but i would like to clear this up as i am in the gb for the ARB's and i am away to buy fsd's through the week, what diameter ARB's are you using mate

owen

 

[RobM]

What tyres and tyre pressures are you running?

 

[Oliveracc]

25mm Eibach ARBs front & rear. 34 psi all round on Goodyear Eagle F1s with loads of tread. Tracking and wheel alignment of the car was done not long ago and is spot on.

 

[owen lcr]

mmm i am not to sure then because i use those tyres and i cant fault them, the only thing i can think of is the rear ARB is 25 and most people opt for the 28mm but i dont know if this would caus your problem, i am sure someone will clear it up, but you are probebly right with your theory using the standard springs

 

[stewbie55]

Interesting...

My LCR has FSD's but with Eibach Springs (no ARB's) and is much the same!

Was hoping fitting Eibach ARB's would help. I also have an S3 strut brace and recently had the tracking adjusted (was wayout before) and as you say the front is very "pointy" but feels like the rear is on a waterbed on sweeping bends at 90 + (am I allowed to admit to that ).

I noticed songman's IHI'd LCR has had powerflex bushes fitted and was also wondering if they would help (mind you he has Eibach coilovers).

As I didn't own the car before the FSD's were fitted I can't comment on what it was like before, but my old standard LC didn't suffer from this as far as I noticed although it was not as good in the other respects In a straight line the FSD's seem great!

As I have plenty of go (350+BHP) I really would like to get the handling sorted and at the back of my mind can't help wondering if I really need some decent coilovers?

 

[skahigh]

this might seem silly but isnt it really the nature of a powerful fwd car to feel like its about to oversteer at any given moment? i have to say my rear end feels like its going to flick out quite often.

 

[Willie]

25mm Eibach ARBs front & rear. 34 psi all round on Goodyear Eagle F1s with loads of tread. Tracking and wheel alignment of the car was done not long ago and is spot on.

34 PSI is quite high for the rear, try 31 PSI and 33 at the front and see if that makes a difference. Also try using a digital tyre pressure gauge to get it accurate. Hope this helps.

 

[karlosR]

my LCR was very skittish in situations like those mentioned earlier. i've fitted forge 10mm spacers on the back and it has helped no end. before it didn't feel very stable at high speeds in a straight line as well as on twisty stuff, i think as standard the LCR has a wider track on the front compared to the rear (i could be wrong though) so a wider rear helped me.......... looks better too!

 

[Cran]

Turn the ESP off if you haven't already

 

[AdamRoutley]

my LCR was very skittish in situations like those mentioned earlier. i've fitted forge 10mm spacers on the back and it has helped no end. before it didn't feel very stable at high speeds in a straight line as well as on twisty stuff, i think as standard the LCR has a wider track on the front compared to the rear (i could be wrong though) so a wider rear helped me.......... looks better too!

do you have a link for those spacers mate? are they simple enough to fit? (bareing in mind, mine is a petrol FR...with the FR wheels, not the LCR)

 

[stewbie55]

Turn the ESP off if you haven't already

You may have a point there, my ESP came on the other day at 130ish on a motorway bend (there was no other traffic around!) and I wasn't even on the gas. Scared the sh*t out of me!

Just this morning it came on at 50 ish on a tightish bend - made the car feel very skittish - thought it was meant to be a safety feature

My old LC only had TCS so this wouldn't happen. Will have to get used to turn it off as a matter of course.

Does anyone know if its possible to turn the ESP off permanently? Would prefer not to have the light on on the dashboard all the time

 

[skahigh]

Does anyone know if its possible to turn the ESP off permanently? Would prefer not to have the light on on the dashboard all the time

do a search

 

[RobDon]

Try fitting a rear strut brace, helps alot on fast sweeping bends, remember the back of a Leon is just a big empty space with little torsional stiffness.

 

[Sy]

Rob you got the contact details for the guy or link etc where you got your one from?

 

[Oliveracc]

Try fitting a rear strut brace, helps alot on fast sweeping bends, remember the back of a Leon is just a big empty space with little torsional stiffness.

Hmm does a rear strut-brace really help here? I wouldn't imagine the rear of the car is twisting much on a long sweeping bend?

Perhaps widening the rear track via spacers or fitting proper coilovers would help... Although how much it would help I'm not sure.

Regarding comments on the LCR ESP - yes I agree it is absolute shite. It comes on needlessly when cornering, sometimes at quite high speed. If anything its a danger for a keen and competent driver.

I'm really not sure if this problem if fixable on the LCR, perhaps that's why the Cupra R race cars run massive rear wings... Perhaps I'm just expecting too much of the car?

 

[stewbie55]

Hmm does a rear strut-brace really help here? I wouldn't imagine the rear of the car is twisting much on a long sweeping bend?

Perhaps widening the rear track via spacers or fitting proper coilovers would help... Although how much it would help I'm not sure.

Regarding comments on the LCR ESP - yes I agree it is absolute shite. It comes on needlessly when cornering, sometimes at quite high speed. If anything its a danger for a keen and competent driver.

I'm really not sure if this problem if fixable on the LCR, perhaps that's why the Cupra R race cars run massive rear wings... Perhaps I'm just expecting too much of the car?

Oliver, I'm thinking much the same thing.

I had a tussle with a Focus ST this evening, after he had a couple of lengths head start on a dual carriageway I drew up to just nudge my bonnet in front but then needed to slam on the anchors for an upcoming roundabout doing about a ton (actually I braked quite moderately) - the car was all over the place bucking and pitching and feeling like the backend could come round at any moment and although ESP was off it clearly was doing something (and probably actually saved me in this case). The ST looked very composed beside me and braked much the same, I felt I was lucky not to slide over into him

I reckon the FSD's will have to go and I'm coming to the conclusion that it feels like the damping is too "slow" on them. I also reckon the spacers might be worth a try to give some backend "feel".

 

[RobDon]

Yes a rear strut brace helps alot. Yes widening the track using spacers helps too, but this in turn puts extra stress on the wheel bearings and longer wheel bolts. Coilovers with adjustable dampers offer a significant improvent in handling and when braking hard.

I can take 100+mph sweeping bends and my car doesn't move at all, under very hard braking it is 100% stable too, mind you I have a Cupra!!!

Mike's email address for the rear braces is: [email protected]

 

[UncleFester]

I'm running one of those rear braces, Eibach front and rear ARB, Powerflex bushes, OMP Front Top and bottom braces and Eibach Pro Shocks and springs .... that combined with a fairly heavy boot install - no problems with stability at all. If anything i get squealing fiour wheel drift if i push it too hard which is great fun Oh yes and no ESP, just TCS.

 

[Feel]

The back end of the LCR is floaty/skittish/scarey by nature. I found if I got hold of it by the scruff of the neck and told it what to do, it was fine, but it never really inspired confidence. I don't know if the Cupra or other Leons are better of worse for it.

I would take the suggestions on your tyre pressures, but I would also seriously look at you ARB sizes - my understanding was that this platform needs a larger one at the rear, and I think your front one is the largest one that they do.

I ran, on stock suspension, a standard front ARB (I think the stock is smaller than 22mm?) and a Neuspeed Rear 25mm. The car still had a slight tail happy nature, but it felt planted and was much, much, much better than stock.

At one point I ran an Eibach rear 25mm ARB, and I felt that it was significantly stiffer than the Neuspeed - the Eibach made it want to snap oversteer. I would've lived with it because of the improvement it made, but it banged on the back box anyway. I'm trying to remember if the rear felt more unsettled with the Eibach compared to the Neuspeed, I have a feeling that it did, but I can't be sure. The point being that the 25mm Eibach was stiffer than the 25mm Neuspeed.

Have a look at your ARB sizes - I doubt most VAG Houses would even sell that combination.