The difference propane makes to a diesel car.

[devonmikeyboy]

Took my car to Interpro today to do some testing on their RR. Just thought that i would show people the power increase you can get with a good propane kit. The power shown is at the flywheel.
Just running diesel.

Diesel and propane.

Found out while doing the power runs that i have a blown turbo manifold gasket which was why the car was not holding boost properly. I have been running this setup for the last few weeks along with 75bhp of NOS that comes on at 20 PSI so was really hoping to have a 300bhp dyno printout but i guess that will have to wait until i get the gasket fixed now.

 

[davidol]

how does the propane work then? is it in gas/liquid form? excuse my ignorance!

 

[Fez boy]

Looking good so far then

 

[Ibiza Evo 2]

Naaaaaiiiiiisssss

 

[timbotdi]

Sounds fantastic Mike - obviously ignoring the blown gasket! I assume you're keeping with the VT5 for now... Any movements on the VT7 front? ;o) Lloyd said you're eager to crack the 300BHP mark - have Allard done the propane / NOS work? If so, I assume our young Portugeuse friend was able to supply a suitable map? Hmmmm... I'm loving my setup as is now, but I'm thinking NOS / ATB in the Summer - should I be adding propane to the list aswell?

Muchos respect for taking diesel tuning to the next level mate!

T

 

[Triple D]

Good results then young mikey, i bet lloyd loved you when you tol him that you have that blown gasket even more work for them to do on your car.

 

[delaxm]

Propane

What kit you using, how are you metering the gas, & what is the max % of gas?

I experimented with LPG + diesel earlier this year but was worried I'd blow something - I got very good power gains with 17% propane (calculated by calorific value) but was unsure if this was the correct way to calculate it.
I used a switch on the throttle under the bonnet to activate & a pulse width modulated solonoid valve to control the flow of gas as the revs rise, but only when roadspeed was above 40mph.

 

[ccvrs]

I ran 15% Propane and 2 turbos later gave up, now running a bog standard 180 map.

 

[bellautos]

how does the propane work then? is it in gas/liquid form? excuse my ignorance!

The propane used on a diesel is normaly in GAS form, and not LPG.
Most kits have a vapour tank and not the normal liquid tank.
Althow you can still fill it up with liquid, the pick up pipe is missing so only vapour comes out.

This is because normaly the kits that are out there do not have vapoursers built in and therefore the need for gas and not liquid.

IF liquid were to be injected direct into the engine it would be game over very soon

The gas in injected on the inlet side before the turbo mixing with the air going into your engine and making a 99% burn of the diesel injected.

The gas is notmaly controled/regulated by a valve that uses boost pressure to adjust the gas injection.

The more boost , the more gas the valve injects.

I have the Propane powershot kit on a engine i have in a landrover.

http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/home.html

One of my partners is the UK reseller of this kit

Regards pete

 

[devonutopia]

Oh man, this is such interesting stats given I have lpg at the moment, and planning some serious turbo work soon.

Nice to see how the power starts feeding in at 2500rpm and shoves in some serious grunt. Am I reading that right, in that the engine was revved to 5500rpm? Something extra special been done to raise your redline up a bit?

I just re-read that post... NOS? Please tell me more!

 

[mpm1987]

looking like you got some serious power coming on there!

 

[devonutopia]

Hmm, it's not clear above. Were the two runs above JUST with diesel, then diesel and propane? Or was NOS on for both runs to maintain comparability?

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Sounds fantastic Mike - obviously ignoring the blown gasket! I assume you're keeping with the VT5 for now... Any movements on the VT7 front? ;o) Lloyd said you're eager to crack the 300BHP mark - have Allard done the propane / NOS work? If so, I assume our young Portugeuse friend was able to supply a suitable map? Hmmmm... I'm loving my setup as is now, but I'm thinking NOS / ATB in the Summer - should I be adding propane to the list aswell?

Muchos respect for taking diesel tuning to the next level mate!

T

Allards fitted the propane and NOS. NOS is OK if you have got plenty of fuel going into your engine, without adding extra fuel when injecting the NOS the car will run lean and you will actually loose power. I am not a NOS expert so if i have got it wrong please somebody correct me. NOS is expensive and insurance companies don`t like it. If you want more power mate get a propane kit as it is very cheap to run and if you word it right like me my insurance didn`t even go up just be very careful of what kit you buy.

What kit you using, how are you metering the gas, & what is the max % of gas?
I experimented with LPG + diesel earlier this year but was worried I'd blow something - I got very good power gains with 17% propane (calculated by calorific value) but was unsure if this was the correct way to calculate it.
I used a switch on the throttle under the bonnet to activate & a pulse width modulated solonoid valve to control the flow of gas as the revs rise, but only when roadspeed was above 40mph.

The kit i am using i originally bought last year and had fitted to my PD Cupra with very good results. The kit was bought from and fitted by ( to my Cupra ) P.I Fuels Ltd which is run by a guy called Chris who is really down to earth and very helpful. http://www.p-i-fuelsystems.com/
The system measures the amount of air getting sucked into the engine and there is an adjustment device that i can alter the amount of propane that gets injected into the engine compared to the air flow. I do not know what the max percentage is, sorry.

Oh man, this is such interesting stats given I have lpg at the moment, and planning some serious turbo work soon.

Nice to see how the power starts feeding in at 2500rpm and shoves in some serious grunt. Am I reading that right, in that the engine was revved to 5500rpm? Something extra special been done to raise your redline up a bit?

I just re-read that post... NOS? Please tell me more!

Nothing been done to alter the redline it is just how the new 2.0 PD engine runs, the engine revs and drives more like a petrol then a diesel. Yep had NOS fitted as well, running 75bhp jet at the moment which opens up at 20psi boost. I have to admit it works very well and is very smooth when it comes on.

Hmm, it's not clear above. Were the two runs above JUST with diesel, then diesel and propane? Or was NOS on for both runs to maintain comparability?

Both runs are with NO NOS.

 

[basstard]

Have you also got a torque printout?

This confirms my opinion that propane is far better than nos on a diesel car,,,

So you guys say you run it on gas and not liquid propane,,, where do you fill up mickey?

I'd also be very interested in what is the percentage used vs sucked air,,,

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Have you also got a torque printout?

This confirms my opinion that propane is far better than nos on a diesel car,,,

So you guys say you run it on gas and not liquid propane,,, where do you fill up mickey?

I'd also be very interested in what is the percentage used vs sucked air,,,

Propane is far better on a diesel then NOS mainly because the propane is alot cheaper to buy, it is constantly getting injected so you have more power all of the time and a tank last a long time. My system can run on both gas or liquid. I fill the car up at any LPG filling station. The percentage used vs sucked air depends on how much diesel is getting injected into the engine vs how much air is getting sucked in. All you do to set the car up is get it on a RR and keep on doing runs adjusting the amount of propane going into the engine up wards untill the max power starts to tail off but you should have a knock sensor fitted really or at least an EGT gauge fitted. On a modded car you need to watch the boost pressure as that might start to climb sending the car into limp mode. Hope this helps mate.

 

[WW_VRS]

Hi Mike,

Back to PI Fuel system again

My Fabia vRS has his system on it too, annoyingly my head gasket is gone and my car is off the road at the moment.

I may have to catch up with you once I've got EGT temp gauge fitted to help tune up the propane to the right levels

Did you get yours tuned on diesel side only with propane turned off, then turned on the propane, or did you get it mapped somewhere where they didnt mind the propane?

WW (ps you may remember some of my questions from Briskoda.net PMing )

 

[devonutopia]

Glad I live so close to Mikey. I feel the need to travel up to him pretty darn soon... why that is I have no idea..... VT5 power!!!!

 

[WW_VRS]

Will be interesting to see what that VT5 does, I'm going for a stage 2 hybrid from TurboDynamics, I'm quite sure it isn't the biggest one money can buy but still

I really have to look into sensors to ensure I don't get knocking etc.

Dunno how long it will be before I have my car back, and then I've still got to get it mapped, ideally with propane

 

[basstard]

Propane is far better on a diesel then NOS mainly because the propane is alot cheaper to buy, it is constantly getting injected so you have more power all of the time and a tank last a long time. My system can run on both gas or liquid. I fill the car up at any LPG filling station. The percentage used vs sucked air depends on how much diesel is getting injected into the engine vs how much air is getting sucked in. All you do to set the car up is get it on a RR and keep on doing runs adjusting the amount of propane going into the engine up wards untill the max power starts to tail off but you should have a knock sensor fitted really or at least an EGT gauge fitted. On a modded car you need to watch the boost pressure as that might start to climb sending the car into limp mode. Hope this helps mate.

Thx mickey,,,
So I see that the tuning is done empirically, just by watchin the power graphs,,, I guess this can be done also via vag com since you can read the air and injected fuel quantities with it,,, doing some maths [I am an engineer, sorry, I need maths to be sure] and confronting them with the dyno would be better,,,
It would be better to have a dinamically adjusted lpg inj. quantity, based upon diesel injection, boost pressure and rpm,,,
Knock sensor on a diesel??? You deffo need an EGT sensor imo and also a very strong turbo since I know this mod sends the temps sky high and this can eventually kill the turbo,,, also high temps can kill the head gasket as said so maybe a lil water injection might help,,, then you'll have it all: diesel, propane, nos, water,,, possibly then methanol and god knows what else,,,