A plea for help, likely terminal problem

[hanslope]

A plea for help, likely terminal problem (contd.)

Just put my unmodified Mk4 in for a service and MOT, it passed the MOT and had the anti-roll bar re-attached, and was then parked outside before they started the service. They then came to drive the car back into the garage, but it wouldn't start, and they can't work out whats going on.

They're a friend of the family and work for a highly professional commercial garage, they roped in a SEAT garage guy, a bloke from the AA and have plugged several things into it. A suggestion was the camshaft sensor, but thats working fine. The starter turns, the plugs spark and there's a strong smell of petrol, only problem is it doesn't kick in.

I can't afford for a SEAT dealer to pull it apart and charge me by the hour, and it won't sell for much dead. Any help or ideas.

Please help


Could it be the Crash shut-off was triggered, if so how do i re-enable?? (I diag was done but i don't know what with)

 

[Nath.]

if its a 1.2 it could well be that the cam chain has jumped some teeth and the cam timing will then be out

this is a common problem on the 1.2 and if it's still in warranty it's a free repair

by the sound of your car having an mot I guess it's at least 3 so good luck chap

BTW if the crash shut off has activated you will have no power steering and at least one of your air bags deployed

 

[gazjones]

my old 1.2 did this and ive known of a few others. the chain tensioner fails on start up as it loses oil pressure or something allowing the chain to slipp meaning the valves are opening at the wrong time if its just outside warrenty as them if they will do a good will claim on it as its a big job

 

[Nath.]

yup the chain tentioner fails, the chain becomes loose and jumps the teeth on the sprocket with the smallest diameter which is the crank one

the timing goes out and vag-com will probably show crank sensor fault

the engine not starting is a safty teature to stop it bending the valves if they aint already smashed into the pistons

the best of luck to you with this fella

 

[hanslope]

Thanks, suggestions so far fit with whats been going, I'll pass it on.

 

[tommmineh]

Yup my 1.2s timing chain slipped

Best of luck getting it diagnosed, and paying for it

 

[hanslope]

Thanks for your help diagnosing earlier.

Now the garage are having a dig around but they can't work how to get to the chain, does any body have any diagrams or ideas. They did ask the local Seat Dealer, but you can guess they were told to go away.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Guinness]

eeek hope this doesnt happen 2 mine, really have scared me now

 

[iancupra]

Have you had them check the starter motor cable? Happened to me a few months ago & seems a common problem.

Get them to check that its connected OK as mine had worked loose as SEAT had only cable tied it and not left enought length on it.

 

[tommmineh]

Have you had them check the starter motor cable? Happened to me a few months ago & seems a common problem.

Get them to check that its connected OK as mine had worked loose as SEAT had only cable tied it and not left enought length on it.

If that was the case nothing would happen at all when you turn the key, the chap says it turns and sparks.

This happened to mine also!

 

[Ant FR]

my old 1.2 did this and ive known of a few others. the chain tensioner fails on start up as it loses oil pressure or something allowing the chain to slipp meaning the valves are opening at the wrong time if its just outside warrenty as them if they will do a good will claim on it as its a big job

assume as he mentions MOT it is out of Warranty period. however if its a common problem, ask SEAT for a goodwill payment.

 

[tommmineh]

yeah i'm in the process of claiming a goodwill payment even though it was 6+ months ago, this'd be a lot easier if it was fixed at a Seat dealer

 

[gazjones]

Thanks for your help diagnosing earlier.

Now the garage are having a dig around but they can't work how to get to the chain, does any body have any diagrams or ideas. They did ask the local Seat Dealer, but you can guess they were told to go away.

Thanks in advance.

i saw mine when it was outside during this problem being fixed, the drivers side enginew mount was removed and the weight of the engine taken by a brace over the struts. once the engine mount is off there is just a timing chain cover im sure on the side of the engine like most but i think this cover is pretty big as a could see into the sump they should be able to find it.
pic below of that part of the engine
1 - Cylinder head with camshaft housing
q Do not rework the sealing surface
q With integrated camshaft bearings
q Removing and installing → Chapter
q Remove remnants of old sealant
q Before fitting, apply -AMV 188 001 02-
q To fit, place vertically from the top with the adjustment bolts in the cylinder head holes
2 - Cylinder block
q 2-part
q Do not loosen the bolts
3 - Balance shaft
4 - Sprocket
q For balance shaft
5 - Oil pump
q Only renew complete
6 - Guide pin
q Tightening torque: 20 Nm
7 - Guide rail
q For roller chain → Item
8 - Sprocket
q For crankshaft
9 - Sprocket
q For oil pump drive
10 - Roller chain
q Mark D.O.R. before removing (assembly position)
11 - Sprocket
q For oil pump
12 - Sump
q Removing and installing → Chapter
q Clean sealing surface before installing
q Assemble with silicone sealant -D 176 404 A2-
13 - Bolt
q 15 Nm
14 - Bolt
q 8 Nm
15 - Cover
16 - Bolt
q 20 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 °)
17 - Bearing socket
18 - Crankshaft pulley
19 - Bolt
q 90 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 °)
q Renew
q Lubricate before fitting
q Lock the pulley with the adjustable pulley and sprocket securing tool -T20018A-
20 - Bolt
q 25 Nm
21 - Bolt
q 45 Nm
22 - Bolt
q 10 Nm
23 - To intake manifold
24 - Bolt
q 10 Nm
25 - Oil deflector
q With heated vacuum valve
26 - O-ring
q Renew if damaged
27 - Control housing
q Remove sump
q Fit with sealer -176 404 A2-
28 - Cover
29 - O-ring
q Renew if damaged
30 - Bolt
q 50 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 °)
q Lock the sprockets with the adjustable tool for securing pulleys and sprockets -T20018A-
31 - Tensioning plate
32 - Hydraulic chain tensioner
q 40 Nm
33 - Bolt
q 15 Nm
34 - Roller chain
35 - Sprocket
q For camshaft
36 - Bolt
q 15 Nm
37 - Guide rail
38 - Washer

 

[Guinness]

wow doesnt the engine look really easy, pfft yer right...

 

[hanslope]

Sorry

Your pic seems to have dissappeared, can you repost it please, thanks.

 

[gazjones]

yes will do io know why was sorting my photobucket out

 

[gazjones]

pic is back up sorry about that!

 

[hanslope]

Thanks, thats very helpful. Where did you get them from?

I'll pass them on and hopefully I can get this sorted soon.

 

[gazjones]

ive got a program of every seat vw and audi of the last few years with diagrams on nearly everything! has come in handy

 

[rashcupra]

is it a program called etika? gaz?