Picking up new Toledo tomorrow!!

[akchappers]

Yes there is a bit of floaty lurching . I was thinking of a 30mm drop maybe 40 rear end . Strut brace may help . Back end seems big looser than front though

 

[johnny cabbage]

I really like the looks, but to be honest it's a rubbish drive with ancient underpinnings from the MK4 Golf parts bin amongst others. You can feel the body twisting in bumpy bends and it lacks grip overall, especially on the factory Bridgestone 050A which are poor. But worst is the torque-free 1.0 lump. I quite enjoyed 3 years driving the 1.2 model Toledo, but find nearly all of the 1.0 motors across the SEAT range awful, bar the 95PS 5 speed in the Arona.

I remember your posts when you spotted the toledo offers online and actually ordered one, but deal fell through due to the salesman being a weasel.
I eventually bought two used 1.2TSI Toledo's one for the wife and the other for my daughter, both been great cars for last 2 years, sadly my daughters car was stolen and written off on xmas eve (keys hooked through letterbox).
I am looking for a replacement for my daughters and came up blank with nothing low mileage enough that would fit her budget, as a compromise I offered her the wifes car Toledo ITech 1.2TSI , if I could find a newer model ,and I have spotted a Toledo Excellence 1.0 TSI in the midlands for sale.
However after reading your comments regarding your dissapointment over the 1.0 engines sluggishness I am wondering whether to avoid the 1.0 TSI engine and perhaps go for a rapid 90ps for the daughter and let the wife keep her Toledo I tech 1.2 which she loves.
I test drove an Ibiza 1.0 tsi yesterday and it sounded like it was misfiring and felt a bit like it had a harsh thrumming sound to the engine when under load - Is this a normal charecteristic of this 1.0 engine ?
I told the salesman it sounded like it had a misfire and he just shrugged and didnt offer any helpful response so I handed him the keys back and came home.
I dont really want to drive 90 miles to test drive the 1.0 Tsi Toledo if it performs the same as the one in the Seat ibiza, it felt like it would have to be driven hard to get any type of performance out of it , which would probably make its fuel economy fall off a cliff.
Have you still got your 1.0 Toledo Excellence Camel of have you changed it for something else ?
The boot size on these toledos is amazing and with 2 grand kids in tow it is ideal for us, and likewise my daughter.
Still a lot of car for the money but the niggle is there about whether I would be happy with the 1.0 engine.
Cheers chaps

 

[camelspyyder]

I bought a 1.0, and it was a retrograde step from the older 1.2 105, let alone the 2015-on 1.2 110 ( with 16 valves, no camchain and seemingly much better reliability). After 2 years of it I would still much rather have a low mileage 1.2.

The 1.0 just has no torque at all. I've driven many different models of the VW 1.0 triple. The 60/75/80 are nippy in town and hopeless on the open road. The 110/115 have no torque and just demand so many gear changes to get along. The 95 turbo 5 speed is pretty nice, but not sold in the Toledo.

Buy a 2017 1.2. pre April for cheap VED. Did I not mention the 1.0 pays way more road tax too, as well as being a pain to drive.

The thrummy noise from the triple during acceleration is normal. It's very very quiet at constant speed.

In your shoes, I would buy the newest 1.2 Style Advanced I can find. All of the newer kit upgrades, but still has the good engine. The 1.0 sucks. (Other opinions are available, not all are based on 30000 miles with each engine in the SEAT Toledo IV .)

 

[johnny cabbage]

I bought a 1.0, and it was a retrograde step from the older 1.2 105, let alone the 2015-on 1.2 110 ( with 16 valves, no camchain and seemingly much better reliability). After 2 years of it I would still much rather have a low mileage 1.2.

The 1.0 just has no torque at all. I've driven many different models of the VW 1.0 triple. The 60/75/80 are nippy in town and hopeless on the open road. The 110/115 have no torque and just demand so many gear changes to get along. The 95 turbo 5 speed is pretty nice, but not sold in the Toledo.

Buy a 2017 1.2. pre April for cheap VED. Did I not mention the 1.0 pays way more road tax too, as well as being a pain to drive.

The thrummy noise from the triple during acceleration is normal. It's very very quiet at constant speed.

In your shoes, I would buy the newest 1.2 Style Advanced I can find. All of the newer kit upgrades, but still has the good engine. The 1.0 sucks. (Other opinions are available, not all are based on 30000 miles with each engine in the SEAT Toledo IV .)

Hi camel , thanks for the detailed appraisel of the 1.0 , wife has the Itech 1.2 and its a great car , all the toys, looks nice in white too , I was tempted to give my daughter the ITech and but a newer fully loaded Excellence with the 1.0 but you have confirmed my suspicions that after driving the 1.2 TSI dont think I could live with the engine performance of the 1.0.
I am going to test drive a 1.0 tomorrow in a Toledo but if its anything like the ibiza I tried yesterday it wont be finding a space on my driveway.

I actually found a 1.2 style advanced but when I inspected it yesterday it was a bit tatty and the service history said it was serviced on 20/01 /20 at this particular main agents with their stamp on book at 37,000 miles yet the odometer showed 26,000 miles so I walked.
This was a main Seat agents as well, the salesman had a total lack of interest and when I tackled him about the anomily of the service history he dissapeared and I had to get another salesman , who said he was called on another job??? more like he bugged out because I nailed him on the service history.
I was going to plug my VCDS in but couldnt be arsed as the car had also been marked up a grand more than advertised on Auto trader, what a bunch of weasels!
I have heard other people slate this company and now I know why !
Cheers , I will report back on my test drive tomorrow .

 

[camelspyyder]

Hi camel , thanks for the detailed appraisel of the 1.0 , wife has the Itech 1.2 and its a great car , all the toys, looks nice in white too , I was tempted to give my daughter the ITech and but a newer fully loaded Excellence with the 1.0 but you have confirmed my suspicions that after driving the 1.2 TSI dont think I could live with the engine performance of the 1.0.
I am going to test drive a 1.0 tomorrow in a Toledo but if its anything like the ibiza I tried yesterday it wont be finding a space on my driveway.

I actually found a 1.2 style advanced but when I inspected it yesterday it was a bit tatty and the service history said it was serviced on 20/01 /20 at this particular main agents with their stamp on book at 37,000 miles yet the odometer showed 26,000 miles so I walked.
This was a main Seat agents as well, the salesman had a total lack of interest and when I tackled him about the anomily of the service history he dissapeared and I had to get another salesman , who said he was called on another job??? more like he bugged out because I nailed him on the service history.
I was going to plug my VCDS in but couldnt be arsed as the car had also been marked up a grand more than advertised on Auto trader, what a bunch of weasels!
I have heard other people slate this company and now I know why !
Cheers , I will report back on my test drive tomorrow .

Test drive it out of town, preferably with some gradients and single carriageways. The slightest hill will make 6th unusable, sometimes 5th too. I used to sometimes let the 1.2 pull from about 1200 revs in high gears, the 1.0 needs 2000 and doesn't really get going until 3000. I'd even rather have the 1.6TDI ( and I loathe that particular VW product too).

 

[johnny cabbage]

Test drive it out of town, preferably with some gradients and single carriageways. The slightest hill will make 6th unusable, sometimes 5th too. I used to sometimes let the 1.2 pull from about 1200 revs in high gears, the 1.0 needs 2000 and doesn't really get going until 3000. I'd even rather have the 1.6TDI ( and I loathe that particular VW product too).

Cheers for the heads up Camel , I do value your opinion as I know you have experienced ownership of several different engined models.
Just to confuse me even more I am just back from my test drive in a 1.0 Toledo and it seemed a lot better than the seat ibiza I drove on saturday with the supposed same engine , that was a really marked difference from the wifes 1.2TSI.
This one I drove this morning was actually OK, though I was aware I was having to push the revs to get it to pick up I was still in 4th gear on a 50 mph stretch of A road in a line of moving traffic trying to get it through the gears and see how it performed, I was pushing it a bit.
I got it onto a dual carriageway and that went downhill getting onto it, so I came back the other way up the gradient and it wasnt as sluggish as I thought it was going to be, in fact I began to wonder whether I could live with this engine after all !
I wonder if there are several different stages of tuning for these cars when they are produced , it appears to me over the last few days that not all 1.0 3 pots from VAG are the same and certainly the Ibiza 1.0 and this toledo 1.0 were completly different to drive and the toledo felt a lot more sprightly, its wierd ???
I have the chance to test drive another 1.0 same excellence model thats about 70 miles away (but its the right price) they wouldnt budge on this particular cars price and the other is a nicer colour.
I just wonder whether to drive down and test drive it if nothing more than to just to satisfy my curiosity as to whether this other one would drive the same , because if it did -I might be tempted after all.
I am completley baffled by the huge difference in performance on two cars with the same engine under the bonnet ?

 

[camelspyyder]

Maybe the Ibiza actually was a lower powered one. Many Mk5 ( 2015-17) had 75 bhp motors which are fine in town, poor on main roads.
I don't know, despite the Toledo 1.0 having more torque and bhp on paper than the 1.2, it just never feels like it in real life driving. It always feels gutless to me. I only keep it because I'm on a pension and changing makes no financial sense.

 

[johnny cabbage]

Maybe the Ibiza actually was a lower powered one. Many Mk5 ( 2015-17) had 75 bhp motors which are fine in town, poor on main roads.
I don't know, despite the Toledo 1.0 having more torque and bhp on paper than the 1.2, it just never feels like it in real life driving. It always feels gutless to me. I only keep it because I'm on a pension and changing makes no financial sense.

I am really blowing hot and cold over this decision, as my own experiences have shown me a massive difference in performance on two same Seat 1.0 engines in two different cars- I think the ibiza was a newer car around 2019 and maybe the engine was tighter - I dont really know but the The caveats you gave are still ringing in my ears - I could live with the performance of the toledo I drove this morning if it doesnt turn out to be a huge dissapointment regarding fuel consumption.
I drove it hard on test drive for about 15 miles and when we got back to garage the "vagometer " mpg read out said 37.4 mpg so I reckon probably about 33mpg in real terms, driving it like I stole it. The road was dual carriageway and A roads with only one gradient not exactly a hill but a drag for about 2 miles.
Whst MPG are you seeing nowdays and what mileage are you up to on your odometer?
I wonder whether a remap might rekindle your relationship with your Toledo ?

 

[camelspyyder]

I am really blowing hot and cold over this decision, as my own experiences have shown me a massive difference in performance on two same Seat 1.0 engines in two different cars- I think the ibiza was a newer car around 2019 and maybe the engine was tighter - I dont really know but the The caveats you gave are still ringing in my ears - I could live with the performance of the toledo I drove this morning if it doesnt turn out to be a huge dissapointment regarding fuel consumption.
I drove it hard on test drive for about 15 miles and when we got back to garage the "vagometer " mpg read out said 37.4 mpg so I reckon probably about 33mpg in real terms, driving it like I stole it. The road was dual carriageway and A roads with only one gradient not exactly a hill but a drag for about 2 miles.
Whst MPG are you seeing nowdays and what mileage are you up to on your odometer?
I wonder whether a remap might rekindle your relationship with your Toledo ?

Brand new the 1.0 did 37 ish. 25000 miles later it averages 50 mpg, but driving like a nun.

I just drove a new Ibiza 1.0, and though it sounded like a TSI, it had no turbo, only 80 bhp, and shocking overtaking performance, or not in fact. Maybe you drove one of those 1.0 MPI powered(?) slugs.

 

[camelspyyder]

The 50 mpg is based on only using it for long A&B road journeys. Just moved into town and it's dropped to low 40's straight away.

 

[camelspyyder]

That's not much different to the 1.2, but the 1.0 really needs work to achieve the mpg.

 

[camelspyyder]

...and the slightest gradient or headwind savages the mpg number. As does driving with gusto.( And then you have to listen to the crappy noise it makes too)

 

[johnny cabbage]

...and the slightest gradient or headwind savages the mpg number. As does driving with gusto.( And then you have to listen to the crappy noise it makes too)

I still cant get my head round the engine noise under load - it sounds like a four cylinder car misfiring with a cylinder down (I guess thats what it is in reality) I drove 140 miles round trip to try the other 1.0 toledo and it sounded obviously the same now, but trying to get a decent open stretch of road to get through the gears was nigh impossible, I only got it into 6th gear lterally by pushing the car through gears then finding I had to drop back down through the box, the car did seem to be on the power band in 4th gear in steady traffic up to about 50mph, which kind of underlines what you say about never getting into 6th gear except once on the motorway.
I have to frequently change down through the box on my sportline superb tdi as the gears are so long legged - though I could just let the torque build -I prefer a more instant power and I found myself adopting the same driving style this afternoon with the 1.0Tsi Toledo.
Bottom line the car would do what I wanted it to do but at the expesnes of going up and down the gearbox on the A41, I guess thats what will stonk your fuel economy and that would only become truly clear after you take up ownership.
I hit the maxidot mpg and it showed 54 mpg compared with 37 mpg this morning - though I didnt drive it nearly as hard.
I still dont know I would like to hire one for a few days and really see its true performance,
I am also retired and dont want to find I am hacked off with it after a few weeks of ownership, I also think the wife may find it more difficult to drive as you really have to juggle the gears to cope with the cars low torque .
If I can find a decent style advanced 1.2 I think I will just get that but sods law the only ones I have inspected to date, have some sort of fairy story attached to them

 

[camelspyyder]

Good point about other drivers. My other driver finds the 6 speed gearbox and sod-all torque very awkward to deal with. To be fair, 5 speeds was often too much for her before, but the torque curve (sorry, sharp peak) on the 1.0 means she is in the wrong gear 75% of the time and bemoaning the fact that "it won't go" or being surprised by it stalling below 10 mph in anything but 1st.

 

[johnny cabbage]

Good point about other drivers. My other driver finds the 6 speed gearbox and sod-all torque very awkward to deal with. To be fair, 5 speeds was often too much for her before, but the torque curve (sorry, sharp peak) on the 1.0 means she is in the wrong gear 75% of the time and bemoaning the fact that "it won't go" or being surprised by it stalling below 10 mph in anything but 1st.

Is it worth looking into the mapping of the car and enquiring about a remap that gets you some low down torque- obviously a seasoned remapper is who you need. I know a guy in the midlands that is very switched on and he writes individual programmes for remaps - hes previously done two for me - both excellent results. On another similar note I had a new Huyundai that used to die on taking off at junctions so I took it back to main agents and the modified the map of ECU and the car was much better, no more suicide entances onto roundabouts !.
Maybe some other posters on here can point you in the right direction.

 

[camelspyyder]

Having driven the 95 + 5 speed in a new Arona, I know exactly what engine tune and gearbox I would like in the car, it's so superior.
In fact the Arona also has very good handling, grip and ride; apart from the boot it trumps the Toledo in every way. Maybe I should look out for one.

 

[johnny cabbage]

Having driven the 95 + 5 speed in a new Arona, I know exactly what engine tune and gearbox I would like in the car, it's so superior.
In fact the Arona also has very good handling, grip and ride; apart from the boot it trumps the Toledo in every way. Maybe I should look out for one.

Thats my big problem - we need a huge boot and for the money the Toledo is a lot of car for what you pay ,I can put up with the parts bin reputation of the car, as I am quite happy with the amazing spec on the car, I looked at the Arona prices and in comparison they are eye watering. I think car prices are ridiculous for a tin box and a mass produced engine.
The story I continually hear is "we dont make much money out of cars nowdays " is total nonsense, look around at the glass cathedral heated showrooms you walk into, and the amount of salesmen /women (many who dont know their arse from their elbow) sales lad yesterday was an ex roofer, and didnt know the car could be opened by touching door handle on the KESSY , He was amazed - so was I !
I could pay that kind of money for an Arona Im just too tight !
I remember buying a passat TDI and it was the lower horsepower one but a lot cheaper - I got it remapped and it was a dream to own and drive, maybe its a cheaper option for you rather than fork out thousands to change to a car with the same engine - albeit better running gear, different ratio gearbox- and yet Ive seen people complain like hell about the crap MPG they are getting on 1.0 TSI Aronas /

 

[camelspyyder]

Thats my big problem - we need a huge boot and for the money the Toledo is a lot of car for what you pay ,I can put up with the parts bin reputation of the car, as I am quite happy with the amazing spec on the car, I looked at the Arona prices and in comparison they are eye watering. I think car prices are ridiculous for a tin box and a mass produced engine.
The story I continually hear is "we dont make much money out of cars nowdays " is total nonsense, look around at the glass cathedral heated showrooms you walk into, and the amount of salesmen /women (many who dont know their arse from their elbow) sales lad yesterday was an ex roofer, and didnt know the car could be opened by touching door handle on the KESSY , He was amazed - so was I !
I could pay that kind of money for an Arona Im just too tight !
I remember buying a passat TDI and it was the lower horsepower one but a lot cheaper - I got it remapped and it was a dream to own and drive, maybe its a cheaper option for you rather than fork out thousands to change to a car with the same engine - albeit better running gear, different ratio gearbox- and yet Ive seen people complain like hell about the crap MPG they are getting on 1.0 TSI Aronas /

I know the Arona like the Toledo doesn't get near to the old style EU joke mpg figures, but at least it's available with the engine I want. I expect the higher power 115/6 speed Arona is a pain to drive too. Low mileage Arona 95 are about £11k right now. I might just go and look at a few when I'm back in Blighty

 

[camelspyyder]

I too moved from a diesel to a Toledo petrol. My commute in the diesel involved half a dozen gear changes, in the 1.2 TSI say 20, which I soon got used to, but the 1.0 needs maybe 30 or 40, and I found it much more difficult to drive smoothly...although 2 years on I have adjusted my technique. It's certainly night and day v's a torque laden diesel.

 

[johnny cabbage]

I too moved from a diesel to a Toledo petrol. My commute in the diesel involved half a dozen gear changes, in the 1.2 TSI say 20, which I soon got used to, but the 1.0 needs maybe 30 or 40, and I found it much more difficult to drive smoothly...although 2 years on I have adjusted my technique. It's certainly night and day v's a torque laden diesel.

Yes it was proper wierd jumping into the 1.0 TSI toledo straight out of my superb sportline TDI for a test drive- more gear changes than Lewis Hamilton I think its something you do without thinking for a while though.