Weird problem - central locking + won't start

[MrMogensen]

"Seat Ibiza 1,8 - 1995 (4-doors)"

I have a weird problem!

I fit a new lock-cylinder to the drivers-side door. The lock-mechanism in the door itself works perfectly but suddently the central-locking-system (CLS) doesn't work. Now all 4 doors only works kind of manually (like any old car without CLS). The boot seems to have locked and I can only open it by using the key directly with the boot. The fuel-cover has also locked but, unlike the boot, I can't open it! When I turn the key to open/lock any of the 2 front doors there is a humming-sound from the lock-unit at the fuel-cover (it's working overtime to lock-lock-lock the fuel-cover or something).

To fit the new lock-cylinder I removed and refit the doorhandle by unscrewing the little screw behind the rubber-dot in the lock-side of the door.

I swear I didn't fiddle with anything electric... but it gets even more weird...

Before I had a chance to pull the black carpet out of the boot to access the fuel-cover lock from inside (so I at least could refuel the Ibiza during the next couple of days if I didn't sort out the CLS-problem) my girlfriend needed to go buy some food for a party tomorrow. Shortly after we started to drive it seemed like the engine kind of stalled a few times at low revs (this has never happened before), and when we had to go home the car thing wouldn't start at all. Battery and starter-motor seems to be on good shape, so must be some fuel-problem or what?

Could these problems with CLS and the car not starting be connected in some weird way? Electrical problem?
The reason for not starting could of course be the fuel-pump (it's just plain weird that it all happens on the very same day).

I am sorry for any spelling-mistakes - I am from Denmark!

The car has now been towed home... hoping that someone has any clues or ideas so I could try and fix it this weekend (17-18th October 2009).

 

[HoopDub]

hi there. the central locking works off a vaccume system. sounds like a pipe has come off causing air to leak and not work the locks correctly. id start by checking the pipe to the door that you changed the lock on first.

not starting, posibbly no fuel? does the fuel guage work? did the car fire atall when you tried to start it or just keep turning over?

 

[MrMogensen]

Hey HoopDub

Sounds very possible with the vacuume system leak. I did fiddle alot with the lock from inside trying to release the doorhandle before I read about the hidden screw securing the doorhandle at another thread in this forum (I googled something like "seat forum doorhandle" and found this place). Of course I could have wriggled the vacuume hose and not noticed it. I did notice that one of the rear-door locks made a tiny wriggle as if there was a connection between turning the key and the central locking in that door... so it really makes sense this vacuume thing.
I'll check it first thing sunday morning (it's totally dark outside and freakin' cold now).

About not starting... hmm I could always try empty a 5 liter can into the Seat (just as soon as I am able to open the fuel cover). And I know about the "wire" what you can pull from behind the carpet in the boot to open the fuel cover manually (written in the standard Ibiza Handbook).
But I would be a brand new thing if the fuel gauge didn't work. Usually we never fill up the car before it's close to the redline area because we rarely go for longer trips. But of course anything could have happened. The engine sure sounds like it's trying to start up (battery+startermotor seems fine), but of course I don't know if the sparkplugs ignite or if it is a problem connected to fuel.

I'll check the vacuume hoses and fill a bit of fuel on it... No matter what I'll write an update sometime tomorrow... crossing my fingers

 

[MrMogensen]

Central locking fixed - still won't start...

Semi good news...

Central locking is fixed - and yes it was simply the vacuume hose I accidently had loosened the day before.

Still won't start though. I poured 5 liters of fuel into it (now that I was able to normally open the fuel cover). No difference so not just a faulty fuel gauge. Still just turning over and over. Tried to follow the electric wireing from sparkplugs and back but can't seem to find any loose ends. Checked the fuse box under the steeringwheel and nothing seems to have burned over either.
Today is sunday so I can't even give up and take it directly to a mechanic... bummer.

 

[MrMogensen]

Another update...

Sparkplugs seems to recieve impulse (I felt a small short electric shock when I held a finger on sparkplugcable no. 1 while another one turned the key to start).

It's seems more and more like a fuel-problem.
Loosened the plastic cover that connects the airfilterbox with the carburator, to have a free view of the carburator. No fuel seems to vapour out when starting and giving throttle. Loosened the fuel hose right at the carburator (arrow pointing into the carburator) and seems like plenty of fuel in the in the hose itself. But when another one turns the key (startermotor running) there is absolutly no pressure in the fuel hose. Shouldn't it be spurting fuel because of the fuelpump?

Fuelpump might be dead?
Isn't the fuelpump located under the backseat > circular metal cover (3 screws) > circular plastic cover with 2 lines crossing over and another 2 lines going in/out of the plastic cover.

I must admit I don't really like unscrewing a fuelpump in direct connection with the fueltank myself (if I am right about the location of it?)... Crap!

Perhaps it's the fuelpump relay if there is such a thing - is it under the steeringwheel among other relays - which one?

 

[HoopDub]

what engine do you have?

 

[MrMogensen]

1,8 - 1995 (carburator-model)

I believe it's the same as Golf II and early Golf III ?

 

[HoopDub]

id double check all fuses with a multimeter first

 

[Kai_1600]

http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219953&highlight=fuel+pump+relay

From our lovely FAQ

 

[rubjonny]

when you say you got a shock, was that with the spark plug lead connected properly to the engine or did you disconnect it to check for a spark?
if it was all connected properly that should not happen, you need new leads!

when you turn the key 1 click, you should hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds, if not the relay is dead, the fuse is blown, you have a wiring fault, the pump is dead or the ecu has died or isnt powering up. see the faq as above to check the fuel pump relay & fuse, also check the ecu relay

 

[MrMogensen]

rubjonny >>>

The spark plug lead was not connected - I helt it in my hand (was only a tiny little shock). You meant I only need new leads if I got an electric shock with the lead properly connected right?

HoopDup / Kai 1600 / rubjonny >>>

Nope I hear nothing "start up" when I turn the key one click. Only one click from some relay under the steeringwheel I think. But I already thought about it because I am always careful not to turn the key the last 2 clicks to start the car before the electric sequence (fuel pump and so on) is finished.

To be more precise the Ibiza is my girlfriends car. Her father gave it to her (was his from new), so that's why I know so little about the car. Right now monday morning I went to Copenhagen because of work (160km from the Seat). I'll also thought about that the problem appeared after several weeks with lots of rain... could be water/moist in the relay/fusebox.
I won't be back in about a week and a half, but then I'll bring a multi-meter and a few ekstra tools... that is if my GF can live without her car for that long and doesn't get it pulled to a mechanic. At least I have ruled out alot of things so it'll be cheaper.

But thanks a billion for replies so far... I'll remember to check the faq next time

I'll be back with updates next week...

 

[MrMogensen]

Girlfriend had a mechanic pick up the car - and good thing she did.

It was the fuel-pump => it's all dead.

Unfortunately not a cheap repair, but at least it wasn't some tiny eletronic thing that I could have fixed. I could of course have changed the fuel-pump when I actually located it, but I really don't want to do a thing like that myself. 30 liters of petrol in the tank and me fiddling about under the car trying to make up for whatever tool I with most likely forgot back home... + it's getting freakin cold in Denmark now... well you do the math!

She haven't recieved the bill yet, but if the repairshop only spent an hour or maximum 2 it would be the part that is most expensive anyways I guess... so not much would have been saved doing this myself.

Actually I am gonna get slighty if they spent more than an hour (or 2), because I wrote EXACTLY what they had to look at first and what I had already made sure worked 100%.
I wrote on a note to check relay for fuelpump and then if fuelpump might be dead.

I don't understand why they didn't just put the fuelpump right there on the backside of the cylinderhead like on a Kadett now that's easy to change and no electronic interference!

Thanking everyone who posted here for help and good advice!

 

[Kai_1600]

let us know how much she paid and we can let you know if she was mugged

 

[Fl@pper]

send us a pic of the old one too if you get chance to collect it

 

[MrMogensen]

Kai_1600 >>> The fuelpump was 2600 Dkr (danish crowns) = 350 Euro.
That sounds like a lot, but the good thing is that they only charged her... erhmm... I mean us for 1 hour. First day they found the problem and ordered the pump and the day after they fixed it. But then again as I mentioned already they had a piece of paper from me with a total of 2 possible solutions to the problem and seems like they didn't waste time on checking stuff what I already checked. An experience like this might just convince me into using them as repairshop again.
Overall this was money well spent. If I did the repair myself I would have spent a whole lot more than an hour and had to bring tools from my garage. Lift up the car and locate that darn fuelpump... so 350 Euro + a whole lot more than one hour if it was do-it-yourself.

Fl@pper >>> I'll see my girlfriend (and her Ibiza) in a few days. She picked up the car today and I am pretty sure the shop just threw away the old fuelpump already - but google it or something... I tried and it ain't easy because there are different variants I think.

 

[Fl@pper]

it's ok i know what they look like, just a polite subtle way of making sure they changed it for you that was all

 

[MrMogensen]

Haha aaaaahhh... well I really doubt they would try and cheat me like that.

On the other hand if they said something was wrong with the starter-motor and put a new one in I would probably had gone all Chuck Norris in Delta Force on them!... Hiiiyyaaaaa