TDi150 vs 225R Buying advice

[paul m]

hi all - apart from a bit of nosing around in your archives, I'm new to this forum & hoping to get a bit of advice. Hope this is posted in the right area!

I'm thinking of getting a Mk1 Leon Cupra of some sort....just not sure which one yet! Its mainly going to be used as a commuter / long distance cruiser & I was thinking about either a TDi150 or possibly a 225R as to my eye they are the best looking.

Both similar looking cars, but clearly going to be very different to drive (not got round to driving either yet). Heart says petrol, head says diesel....But need to keep the running costs sensible on this car so ...

I'd love to hear from anyone who has driven / owned both.
- How do they compare in terms of running costs & performance? I guess the 225 will be better off the line but the diesel better on m'ways etc.
- What is the power band like on the diesel? is it particularily narrow?
- I'm assuming sub 30mpg in the 225 & 35-40mpg for the diesel. Is this about right?
- How good is the ride / damping on these cars? Same suspension on each?
- Is there much difference in servicing costs for the 2? When are the big services due on each & how much are they approx?
- Is there anything in particular i should look out for in terms of problems on either model?

Apologies for all the questions, any help at all is gratefully received!

ta!

 

[lordgibbness]

The LCR will be the quicker car on the motorway or any other road really with more power and similar weight. The 225 has plenty of torque so no need to change down to 5th unless you're in a real hurry.

I haven't driven the Leon 150, but I've driven the same engine in an Audi and it's more than capable but - for me - too boring. Diesels just don't involve me and have no revs to play with. I don't have to worry about fuel consumption in general so petrol is always my first choice.

In my chipped LCR I usually get between 25 and 28 mpg but I don't really potter around. I used to get about 27-30 mpg before the remap.

IMO on a stock LCR, the only things that NEED upgrading are the tyres, upper strut brace and the dogbone mount. With those and a stage 1 remap you'll have a very fast car.

No real problems to speak of, just make sure that the cambelt is changed every four years.

 

[Funkyfin2000]

Well then.... guess what I am the perfect reviewer for you:

I have always owned petrol cars, having had Golfs Mk2's and Mk3's etc...

I bought my First Cupra R 2003 2 years ago. I had it 10months and then was persuaded by the wife (with increasing costs on fuel and tax) to get the Mk1 Leon FR+. I found one mapped, to approx 175bhp in mint condition and yellow and I owned that for last 1.5yrs. I found it boring and slow!!! I hated the engine and revs of a diesel etc. I lived with it, don't get me wrong it was no slouch but it DID NOT match up to the CUPRA R in anyway!
I have recently sold the FR+ TDI to FLAK Monkey on here and he is delighted with it! and on Saturday I should be having another Cupra R again in Black. I think that should definetly tell you something!

Maybe it was my personal taste for petrols and fast cars, but the diesel really didn't do it for me at all!!!!

Hope that helps!
Rich

 

[Dyscontinued]

I'm going to differ to lordgibbness...

If you're doing a lot of miles then the diesel is definately the way to go. On a drive to London (from near Leeds) I got 55mpg and I never left the fast lane. Once got 66mpg to Manchester and the M62 is not economical with all them hills. Having said that it was rush hour to I was trundling along at ~60mph.

The ride in the R is a lot firmer than in the TDI but I'd say that's more of an issue on B roads and speedbumps.

I wouldn't say the powerband is too narrow, though not as wide as the higer revs of the petrol. Especially if you remap. Accelartion is rapid enough from 2000 to 4000 depending on gear, and the torque is amazing no matter what gear/revs.

General maintenance I'm not too sure but front brake discs on the R are around £110 each, twice what they are for the TDI. My TDI eats front tyres, around a set a year and I don't travel far but I do by soft grippy tyres.

I think they both need the cambelt changing every 60,000 miles so you may notice prices vary around that mileage for if it's been done or not. If not think how well it's been serviced for the other things too.

I once had a drive in an R and it put my mind to rest that I'd got the right car for performance on a budget. If you have more reads aroudn here you'll find the odd thread on people who've changed from the R to the TDI with job changes giving longer commutes and I can't remember any one of them been too disappointed. Don't be confused, I'm always a little jealous when I se an R but the TDI is not pathetic.

Oh, just a thought, the Leon Cupra TDI 150 was ahead of it's time if you compare a lot of newer diesels reviews (new Golf GTI TDI) they go on about them being rapid but they're on a par with the Leon 5 years late and 5 times the price.

 

[sockpuppet]

I think which ever car you go for you will be pleased, but for different reasons.

My last 4 cars have all been diesel and before I got the TDI150 I did a LOT of research and I couldn't find anything pound for pound that came close! The only real alternatives in diesel were BMW or Audi and these were far more expensive with poorer economy.

I haven't driven the a petrol leon so I can't comment on how good they are, but if I got my fuel paid for or petrol was half the price of diesel I would more likely be driving the 225 than the 150! Don't get me wrong the TDI150 is great to drive and is awesome in many ways, but the only real reason to pick diesel of petrol is the running costs.

While I'm paying for my servicing and fuel, I will always be driving a diesel.

 

[Ruddmeister]

If you don't get the LCR you'll always wish you had

Fact

 

[lordgibbness]

Paul, how many miles are you commuting, or driving each year? What's your no1 priority for your car - economy or performance, or a blend of the two?

 

[Nutkin]

Well then.... guess what I am the perfect reviewer for you:

I have always owned petrol cars, having had Golfs Mk2's and Mk3's etc...

I bought my First Cupra R 2003 2 years ago. I had it 10months and then was persuaded by the wife (with increasing costs on fuel and tax) to get the Mk1 Leon FR+. I found one mapped, to approx 175bhp in mint condition and yellow and I owned that for last 1.5yrs. I found it boring and slow!!! I hated the engine and revs of a diesel etc. I lived with it, don't get me wrong it was no slouch but it DID NOT match up to the CUPRA R in anyway!
I have recently sold the FR+ TDI to FLAK Monkey on here and he is delighted with it! and on Saturday I should be having another Cupra R again in Black. I think that should definetly tell you something!

Maybe it was my personal taste for petrols and fast cars, but the diesel really didn't do it for me at all!!!!

Hope that helps!
Rich

shame cause i wanted it if mine was written off. Im trying to decide on a new car

 

[]D) - |F|R/A(G]

I love it Wooooo hooooo Nice advice but to be brutally honest this is how it goes....

If you want power and speed and a big fat grin on your face forget diesel

If you dont mind saying "oh well my fuel is cheeper" when you get left behind then forget petrol

Simples

 

[Funkyfin2000]

shame cause i wanted it if mine was written off. Im trying to decide on a new car

You wanted mine? Was a cracking car and it was for sale a long time, flak monkey got a great deal at £7.2k!

 

[paul m]

thanks all for the replies...!

I guess i expected to hear the 225 was going to be significantly quicker of the 2 (btw does anyone have any 0-100 or 50-70 times for either?)!

I know I would prefer the petrol car & its very tempting, but i could only justify this if the additional fuel, tax & ins costs were going to be offset by a lower purchase price (I don't want to pump too much ££ into this car as I have another car for playing in / spending ££ on upgrading!).

I guess for this car i don't really need out & out performance, more a blend - its mainly going to be used for my commute ~800miles a month & long distance m/way runs - it won't really get used for too many b-road blasts but i don't want something tooooo dull! It will be replacing my old puma so looking for something a bit more solid, refined & ideally with better performance above 50 / 60 as the puma is a bit weedy in this respect. Was also thinking about a bmw 1-series / focus tdci, but the bm is expensive & the focus a bit common / dull.

I didn't realise the diesel car had different suspension to the 225. How do you diesel drivers find the ride?

Also good to know about cambelt every 60k / 4yrs. Are there any reliable specialists around the midlands for servicing? (I hate main dealers with a passion)

Thanks for the info so far & please keep it coming as its all good to know!!!

 

[lordgibbness]

Yes the R has different suspension and much better Brembo brakes as standard.

If you have a good car already and this is just a commuter then perhaps the diesel is the best choice (although I hope never to have to buy diesel out of principal).

But then again, less than 10k a year there won't be that much difference in the fuel bill I'd say. Are you paying the fuel bill?

 

[rallynut]

i owned a LCR a few years ago sold it and have now got a 150 tdi fr+(same styling kit as the LCR),Reason for changing is i bought my first house and first child so all the pennies i could save were needed.suppose it depends on your situation if you got no ties and running costs arent an issue go for the LCR
Yeah the LCR is a good car and very quick but i find the FR+ ticks all the boxes,if its speed you want then LCR but for an everday car where you want the odd blast here and there go for a FR+ these Diesels have come on a long way these days and with the EGR disconnected hardly ever smokes with me not to mention cheap tax,insurance,over 500 mile to a tank,easy driving with the excellent torque and if thats not enough for you go for you get a remap and you will be quicker still and same mpg if not better when driving tidy,
I fine myself driving this car quicker more of the time than i ever did the LCR simply because i can afford too a 10 mile blast or whatever doesnt nearly empty the tank so i dont worry about taking my time and foot down everywhere and still get 50mpg
At the moment its the car i wouldnt change because there is nothing else out there that id be intrested in.
Suspension is exactly soft soft its quite hard and sporty a good trade off to be honest does roll a bit when pushing it but so did the LCR when i had it
If your anything like me then i worry what cost fuel i have to put into the car per month rather than overall in the year.
Goodluck

 

[Dyscontinued]

You mentioned initial price differences, and I think that's an interesting point to raise actually.

I bought my CupraTDI around when I joined here and it was just under £8k. To get any R at that time was around £10k at mimimum.

With petrol and road tax shooting up the R has depreciated a hell of a lot faster than the diesels and I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[volvic]

If you don't get the LCR you'll always wish you had

Fact

very true, and i have the FR+ tdi!! if money is a factor (for me it was and still is) get the diesel. mines mapped and has a hybrid turbo. dont know how it fairs against a LCR but im happy with it

 

[paul m]

i owned a LCR a few years ago sold it and have now got a 150 tdi fr+(same styling kit as the LCR),Reason for changing is i bought my first house and first child so all the pennies i could save were needed.suppose it depends on your situation if you got no ties and running costs arent an issue go for the LCR
Yeah the LCR is a good car and very quick but i find the FR+ ticks all the boxes,if its speed you want then LCR but for an everday car where you want the odd blast here and there go for a FR+ these Diesels have come on a long way these days and with the EGR disconnected hardly ever smokes with me not to mention cheap tax,insurance,over 500 mile to a tank,easy driving with the excellent torque and if thats not enough for you go for you get a remap and you will be quicker still and same mpg if not better when driving tidy,
I fine myself driving this car quicker more of the time than i ever did the LCR simply because i can afford too a 10 mile blast or whatever doesnt nearly empty the tank so i dont worry about taking my time and foot down everywhere and still get 50mpg
At the moment its the car i wouldnt change because there is nothing else out there that id be intrested in.
Suspension is exactly soft soft its quite hard and sporty a good trade off to be honest does roll a bit when pushing it but so did the LCR when i had it
If your anything like me then i worry what cost fuel i have to put into the car per month rather than overall in the year.
Goodluck

Interesting post, thanks. What does disconnecting the 'EGR' do? Also, what are the options RE: Remapping? A bit more power but with diseasel economy could be interesting as long as it doesn't smoke like a chimney....

 

[Funkyfin2000]

It sounds like reading what you say now, you definetly need the diesel!

 

[Dyscontinued]

Couple of comparison fuel costs for you:

Miles miles: 800
MPG: 30
Fuel Cost:99.9
This journey would cost you £121.11

Miles miles: 800
MPG: 50
Fuel Cost: 102.9
This journey would cost you £74.85

Taken from http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/calc.shtml if you want to have a play around with different mpg and fuel costs. For a while here both petrol and diesel have been the same price per litre.

 

[paul m]

interesting site, thanks.

Are my assumptions about right then - driven reasonably sympathetically ~28mpg av for a LCR & 40mpg av for a tdi?

 

[Cupra TDI 150]

Hi mate had the same dillema myself. I was all set to by an "R" but after the test drive, the amount of fuel that i used and the fact i almost killed myself changed my mind.

I now have a Cupra TDI 150 and have done for the best part of 2 years, its running at 160bhp as standardand which will be remapped to over 200bhp in the future and I still expect to get over 45mpg regurly getting an average of over 55mpg on long runs. Whilst on a short break in wales last year i got over 600 miles to a tank even going up all the hils.

The ride is comfortable not quite as responsive as my lowered mk1 focus but is totally different power wise. I still grin when I drive it. My partner can tell I still love it as much as when I bought it