Spongy Brake Pedal

MrWill

Active Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
0
Bristol, UK
Hi all,

For the last 10 days or so I've been noticing that when I brake fairly hard (50%+) my pedal has gone a bit spongy. I haven't changed the pads or disks recently and they all have plenty of life in them.

Anyone know what it is? Do I need to bleed them? If so, are there any good guides as I haven't done this?

Any help will be appreciated,

Will.
 
Jun 14, 2009
513
1
Yeah, its possible you have air in the hoses in which case you will need to bleed all the brakes first, then top up brake fluid again (Start with the rear drums/discs then do fronts after). If you havn't done it before i highly recommend you get someone trained to do it since you are messing about with a vital part of your car.

If you do it yourself - http://www.carbasics.co.uk/how_to_bleed_car_brakes.htm
but remember have somewhere off road you can test the brakes before going back on again.
 

MATT RILEY

Oil burner
May 9, 2004
429
84
Start with the basics, air will not suddenly get into the hydraulics its much more likely that you have a leak. So check your brake fluid first is it low? If so check the hoses and calipers is there a leak? If in any drought get it checked by a pro.
 

MrWill

Active Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
0
Bristol, UK
Matt - thanks for the advice. I just checked the brake fluid and there is loads left - I couldn't see where the min or max lines were because of a pipe in the way but I pushed down on the suspension slightly and could see that the brake fluid tank is nearly full.

In terms of taking it anywhere, I'm always wary about taking it to places in case they rip me off or tell me that something is burst/broken/split and needs replacing when it didn't. Is it best to take it to a small, independent garage or a national company such as Kwik Fit, etc?

I don't mind bleeding the brakes myself just don't want to muck it up!

Thanks
 
Jun 14, 2009
513
1
It wont be cheap and i would look at checking for air bubbles in your hoses first before looking at anything like that.
 

Chris_a_73

1.2L Ibiza Mk4 '07
Oct 27, 2009
1,949
0
Guildford and Bristol (uni)
Well, they quoted £66 for it to be sorted... They did a temp fix for me for free, but said it was a relatively important part that needed replacing...

Still not got round to it yet, but apparently according to the guys on this forum, I'd be able to get the part cheaply and get an indy garage to fit it.
 

MATT RILEY

Oil burner
May 9, 2004
429
84
Recently I had a brake servo pipe go, which is apparently very common on Mk4 ibizas, and can cause issues like the one you suggested.

Very good point mate this is far more likely to be your problem than air in your brakes. If you feel happy to bleed your brakes then changing the servo hose is a piece of piss mate.
 

MrWill

Active Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
0
Bristol, UK
Ok cool. I'll bleed the brakes sometime this week anyway. If things don't improve then I'll look at taking it somewhere to get looked at.

Where's a good place to get brake fluid? Are there any particular brands/types I should be looking for?

Thanks.
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
Fluid should be changed every 2 years regardless, as brake fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the atmosphere. This lowers the boiling point of the fluid, and eventually will mean the fluid will boil when the brakes get hot enough, and the resulting air bubbles mean you suddenly lose your brakes completely. Not good !

If you're going to bleed them yourself, I *highly* recommend buying yourself a pressure bleeding kit like Gunson's Eezibleed. You're far more likely to bleed the system effectively and it also means it's a one-man procedure. Seriously, it's miles better than shouting up/down to a pedal-pushing assistant, or trying to use those naff one-way valve things.

For a complete change you'd probably need 1-2 litres of fluid, and bleed off from each wheel to ensure all the old fluid is flushed out of each of the brake lines.
Unless you're a very heavy brake user or take the car on track, some decent brand DOT4 or DOT5.1 fluid will do. If your brakes regularly get serious use, try some Motul RBF 600. It's DOT4 but has a higher boiling point.
Make sure the bottle has been stood for a while (not just shaken about) so there's no air bubbles in it. And it needs to be fresh new stuff, not an old bottle you might find knocking round in your garage from a few years ago....

You'll want a small spanner, think it's either 7mm or 8mm from memory, for the bleed nipples.
And a container, preferably clear, to drain the fluid into - an old jamjar or similar.

If you use a pressure bleeding kit that uses a spare tyre for the pressure, be sure to read the instructions first, you may have to drop the tyre pressure first.
 

MrWill

Active Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
0
Bristol, UK
Boots - That's brilliant help thank you.

When I bleed the whole system, is there a specific order I should do it in?

I've read the guide linked above and it's very helpful - the only question about doing it is when I take the tube off of the valve after I've bled that particular corner, won't that let air into the system?

Also re the brake fluid, what's the difference between DOT4 or DOT5.1? Is one better than the other? Where can I get some from?

Again, thanks for the help everyone.
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
I've read the guide linked above and it's very helpful - the only question about doing it is when I take the tube off of the valve after I've bled that particular corner, won't that let air into the system?
I've not read the guide, but if it's Ye Olde method of someone pumping the pedal while you open and close the bleed nipple, then you always tighten/close the nipple while there is still pressure in the brake pedal (ie the pedal is still moving downwards under someone's foot), so the pressure in the fluid means no air will go in.
You can open/close the bleed nipple with a spanner while the tube is still on, so you tighten it up before removing the hose.

But seriously, get the Eezibleed kit - only £15-20 and it's a million times better than doing it the old way. Hook the bottle up to the spare tyre, and the air pressure from the tyre just forces the fluid through.
You just open each nipple in turn, wait till enough fluid has come out, and close again. Air can't get back in because the fluid is pressurised.
I've had mine for years and have used it countless times.
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
I think the difference between DOT4 and DOT5.1 specs is the minimum boiling point. BUT - some good quality DOT4 fluids (eg Motul RBF600) actually have higher boiling points than DOT5.1 fluids.
I think if you look on the cap on the brake fluid reservoir it usually tells you which to use.
If it says DOT4, you can use DOT5.1 (note: NOT DOT5 - confusingly I think that's silicone-based fluid which you don't want) but unless you drive your car very hard or go on a track, you probably won't notice any difference, other than the extra expense.
 
Last edited:

MrWill

Active Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
0
Bristol, UK
Boots - I've now go the Eezibleed kit and some brake fluid, I'll be doing it all tomorrow.

Just looking at the instructions and it says:

"Step 2. Check the pressure in the tyre to be used for bleeding and connect the tyre connector. Pressure test the system for ar leaks at the reservoir cap etc.

Step3. Cure any leaks before proceeding. To reduce the amount of fluid used in replacing all the fluid in the system, partially drain the vehicle's reservoir by opening one bleed nipple, at this point."


What does it mean when it says pressure test the system for air leaks at the reservoir cap etc?

What does it mean by cure any leaks, and partially draining the reservoir by opening one nipple? Does that mean any nipple from one of the four brakes?

Sorry if I'm being dumb, just want to be clear about what I'm doing.
 
Aug 18, 2007
350
0
I've never got on with eezibleed kits personally, always found it better to have a second person helping to bleed.
 

MrWill

Active Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
0
Bristol, UK
*UPDATE*

Bled the brakes a couple of weeks back successfully...didn't really notice much difference to be honest, although I did get quite a lot of dirt and air bubbles out of the old brake fluid.

It was 'OK' up to about 5 days ago and now the same problem has started again...it might have just been in my head that things improved....so now I'm thinking it could well be the servo pipe.

Not sure about next steps though as I don't want to get ripped off by a garage.

Is there any easy way of checking if the servo pipe needs replacing?

Cheers

Will.
 
Adrian Flux insurance services - discount for forum members.