Sort my back end out please?

[godzuki]

The back end on my 16v cupra is just dangerous
yesterday i went round a roundabout at about 20mph and the back end came out AGAIN!!!
Ok it was wet but i was going real slow and just didn't expect it at all.
I had the missus & my baby in the car also,and now i know why she refuses to use the car at all now
I know it has silly 17" rims with 205/40/17 tyres on (will sort this when i get the locking nuts off) and about the narrow polo style rear axle.
Will rear spacers REALLY sort the handling (or just make it slighly better) or do i need to totally re-do the suspension?
What i really want is more rear grip,not understeer even though i know its a short wheelbase.
I believe the whole car is standard if this helps!
HELP PLEASE as this is getting beyond a joke and even i'm not willing to trust the car much more

 

[m0rk]

check your tyres!

 

[AlpineWhite]

What tyres are you using? What pressure?

No oversteer problems using Eagle F1s.

 

[robreidmotors]

tyres good call.

same issue on my 8v, they sometimes go down to 12psi!

 

[godzuki]

I'll check the tyres as i havn't ye but i'd of thought they are over inflated rather than under.
I went to swap them for some G60 steels with new proxe's as they are so hard but the locking wheel tool snapped!
No1 job for the morning then.
Thanks for help guy's

 

[Ben16v]

After your tyres, get your suspension and bushes checked out.

Leaking rear shocks have a similar effect from when i had standard set up on mine. 20mm spacers will help but they aren't going to save the world.

Sticking calipers on the back?

 

[AlpineWhite]

I'll check the tyres as i havn't ye but i'd of thought they are over inflated rather than under.

If you reduce the pressure a bit then they will be a bit less snappy when they break traction. But changing parameters like tyre stifness (through pressure) and rear track (spacers) are for making smaller improvements; they won't cure a fundamental problem like you describe.


Cheers and good luck

 

[hopkinsgm]

...If you reduce the pressure a bit then they will be a bit less snappy when they break traction...

I'd have thought quite the opposite - I tend to run my rears a bit firm (i.e. at "fully laden" pressure when just 1 up) as it makes the back end break away rather more progressively. Sure, it reduces ultimate grip so it starts to break loose a little earlier but it's far more predictable when it does go.

The only time I've ever had any serious handling issues with mine was when scrubbing in some new Eagle F1's on the front with some Pilot SX GT's that had seen some action (around 15k IIRC) on the back. After a particularly hairy moment on a wet roundabout, I swapped fronts and backs and everything got a lot more predictable. The Michelins lasted and lasted - goodness knows what they were made of. "It's rubber Jim, but not as we know it" - and not in a good way neither...

 

[AlpineWhite]

Fair enough, it's what the driver feels that matters. Either way, reducing the rear tyre pressure should increase the total lateral force before it slides.

I imagine new Eagle F1's on the front and worn out tyres on the rear is a recipe for disaster (or entertainment, if you've nothing to hit!)

 

[hopkinsgm]

As stated above, a bit more pressure in the rears will reduce ultimate grip but I find it gives a bit more warning before it goes and is a lot more catchable when it does. Running at recommended pressures, I find it gives very little warning before it all starts going a bit backwards and you need to be a bit quick to stand a hope of catching it.

I should point out that I was just trying to get a few miles on the Eagles before shifting them to the back. I normally do aim to stick 250 to 500 miles on the front with a new pair of tyres before moving them to the back. New (relatively) sticky tyres up front and old unsticky tyres on the back is not wise. Eagle F1's ain't what they used to be IMHO.

 

[Ash-Kennard]

my car does this also, back end can just go. in all fairness i do enjoy it, but it is dangerous. can you space steel wheels? or do i have to get some alloys? and do you have to spacer both the front and the rear, or can i get away with just the rear?

 

[AlpineWhite]

You can space any kind of wheel.

Why do you say 'get away with just the rear'? You only need spacers on the rear for this problem, I'm not sure why you think you'd need them on the front?

But get some proper tyres first and then think about spacers.

 

[Ash-Kennard]

well im just asking do spacers need to be on each wheel or just the rear, dont want it to make my car shitter....

 

[AlpineWhite]

On both rear wheels.

But put some proper tyres on first, eh.

 

[projectgingawar]

my car does this exact same thing. And on my car it's because the rear dampers are shot. Really loose in the rear especialy when there is a bump mid corner. That makes it want to face the wrong way.

 

[Novataken]

Mine use to do it quite alot untill i got Coilover's so im guessing it was that my old shocker's were knackerd

 

[BrownCupra]

Eagle F1's? Pah not for me mate, it has to be Toyo's they last about as long as chocolate in my hands but they stick like **** to a blanket.

Run them and the presure stated or slightly under maybe 1 or 2 psi. If you run them hard i.e the fully laden presure if wil push out the centre or the tyre and you wont be using the full width of the tyre.

 

[hopkinsgm]

...Eagle F1's? Pah not for me mate...

Nor for me nowadays - I rated the old GS-D2's but I'm not impressed by the GS-D3's. Preference these days is for Yokohama A539's when I can get 'em - again, they don't have a particularly long life expectancy, but I find they work well for me.

As for pressures and tyre wear, it's very much dependant on the tyre - I suspect it's largely down to how stiff the sidewalls are. With stiff sidewalls, you can probably get away with dropping the pressures a bit. I'd say it's certainly worth having a little play with the pressures - just a couple of psi either way - to find what suits you and what works with particular tyre treads.

Probably stating the obvious here, but it's well worth having the alignment checked to make sure the wheels are pointing in the right direction. This is best done with fresh tyres - depending on how it's worn, a tyre that's worn unevenly can be enough to mess the angles up a little.

 

[monkee]

Eagle F1's? Pah not for me mate, it has to be Toyo's they last about as long as chocolate in my hands but they stick like **** to a blanket.

Nice analogy lol

 

[BrownCupra]

Eagle F1's? Pah not for me mate, it has to be Toyo's they last about as long as chocolate in my hands but they stick like **** to a blanket.

Nice analogy lol

lol cheers