Service Schedule mk5

[dan103]

Hi,

Coming to do my service this year which is year 5 which i believe to be minor.

Does anyone have a schedule for the mk5 basically want to know when timing belt should be looking to be changed. Otherwise just oil and filters this time.

I thought i found one online ages ago but cant find it now.

thanks

 

[RUM4MO]

If your engine is from the EA211 family, which it might be, I don't know as my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 16V is from that family so so might your engine, the official info from VW Group is, the timing belt is not now a service part, it should be fully examined round its complete circumference during annual service after maybe 5 years, if it is showing signs of wear or breakup - then replace.

I have been checking the timing belt on my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI at service time for the past 3 years to play safe with it and any attendant variable timing cam shaft pulleys. I would think that I will get that belt replaced at roughly 7>8 years if it is still looking "as good as new", I will not be waiting for it to show signs of wear or breakup.

UK based VW Group workshops will still be handing out the safe and profitable advice that it must be replaced at 5 years or ??K miles.

 

[dan103]

thanks man. will give it a look over first and see the condition. much appreicated

 

[dan103]

belt looked good so just check it every year to keep on top every year

 

[Crossthreaded]

Hello dan, I've only just come upon this thread so I'm a bit late to the "party". However I thought you might like my take on this?

I'll say right away that I have a very conservative attitude towards timing belt renewal intervals due to the number of very expensive engine failures I've seen during my life (retired mechanic) caused directly by belt failure. Actually perhaps I should expand on that a little. Today's belts are very much more robust than they were back in their early days and It's often not the belt itself which initially fails but the other components involved in the timing belt drive train. Most often this will be the water pump bearings - if the pump is part of the train (which on the EA211 it's not) - and after that the tensioner/idler pulleys. These components have sealed ball/roller races which are lubricated for life with no provision to periodically add grease. When they fail the belt can run loose and skip teeth on the cam and crank pulleys - or even come off altogether - with absolutely disastrous consequences for the valves and pistons when they get "intimate".

Rum - whose opinions I respect greatly - states above that the belt on these engines is not now considered a regular service item and indeed VW were claiming that in their sales bumph when I bought my 2016 1.0 Ibiza (which has the 3 cyl version of this engine) and he talks above of their recommendation to check the belt at annual services for signs of wear. In my humble opinion this is a very difficult call to make. In my experience visually checking timing belts is unlikely to pick up on one which might fail say, two, three, four months or so down the line. They tend to look either absolutely "fine" or you're taking the covers off because somethings failed! It's quite rare to check a belt and find it slightly frayed, or lightly cracked.

My Ibiza will be 5 years old in the new year with only about 25,000 miles on it and It'll be getting a new belt complete with associated idlers etc at that time. Over cautious? Probably. But a lot cheaper than sorting out the consequences if it fails!

 

[camelspyyder]

Factory says 5 years on post 2009? cars. 4 years before that.

Offloaded our '15 Ibiza at 4.5 years to avoid service, 4 tyres, cambelt bills all at once.

 

[RUM4MO]

5 years belt change started at either 2006 or 2007 when some bits on at least the old 1.4 16V petrol engine were deleted. Engines at that age tended to have very fragile idlers/pulleys/tensions and water pumps, which as Crossthreaded said, tended to fail after a shortish service life and trash the belt and engine.

It is not the factory or VW Group that suggests 5 years for this engine and many others, it is the importers into UK that are getting their workshops to suggest that, the official workshop manuals suggest otherwise, in fact for these engines point out that these belts are not subject to fixed periodic replacement.

I would not try to advise anyone to change their minds over when they get their car's cambelt replaced though, time will tell if VW Group leave the workshop manual suggestion as it is at present. I'm just presenting the official VW Group workshop manual as it stands, that is all.

 

[dan103]

appreciate all your input guys good to hear and read

 

[dan103]

At this moment in current circumstances (Working from home and minimal miles in the last year about a quarter of my normal) and plans to take off road next year im willing to hang on till next year. But defintitely get peoples different views and if you stick with 5 years or not im definitely not going to say your right or wrong, its your car and you want to have the peace of mind and have that item covered then go for it. i have a new issue to deal with currently .....yay

 

[RUM4MO]

One hopefully final comment I'll make on this issue is, if you are only expecting to keep that car for another 5 years, and it is 5 years old already, then I'd be changing that belt now as I'd be using the same period of use of the new belt - years/miles "left" on the next belt will not in reality alter the value of that car when trading/selling it, so if concerned why not pay up now and remove that concern for the remainder of its life with you.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Like you RUM, I'll make a possibly final comment on this - and it is that, over the many years I've been involved with vehicles which run belts I've seen some very ambitious initial recommendations as to service intervals which have been subsequently reduced, sometimes quite substantially, in the light of real world use after the engines come into service. As I've said earlier this is often due not to short comings in the belt itself (with the possible exception of the earlier "wet" belts which ran in engine oil?) but to ancillaries failing (water pump, idler, tensioner bearings being favourites). Although there are exceptions, I've found, in recent years, it's rare to find one failing in under 50,000 miles/5 years so, as that's what VAG dealers are recommending for the EA211, I'll be doing exactly that with mine. In the grand scheme of things it's not a lot of money once every five years even if you are getting the garage to do it - just be thankful it's not a chain! Modern chains seem to be failing at surprisingly low mileages and you don't want to be paying to get one of them done. Car Mechanics Magazine this month did a very interesting and informative feature on engine oils - all 8 pages of it! Near the end it gave a complete list of the API oil spec sequences starting at 2001 with SJ. It's the first time I've seen the existence of "SN Plus" acknowledged - an oil I've been using in the Fiats for a few years now. Then there's the new SP introduced in May of this year (2020) - a spec I'd not previously heard of, and I'm very interested in oils - especially in relation to direct injection engine problems. It's definition includes "protection against LSPI" (Low Speed Pre Ignition) which is a problem suffered by direct injection petrol engines, especially I believe if they are turboed, as so many are these days. It also defines "protection for timing chain wear, deposits on pistons and turbochargers and more stringent sludge and varnish control" (could they be trying to address port fouling? VERY interesting stuff don't you think? Once again I find myself completely convinced that extended interval oil changes were invented by the devil to empty the pockets of the poor unsuspecting mechanically ignorant members of "Joe Public"

However RUM, as you so rightly say above, Time will tell!

 

[RUM4MO]

Warning Off Topic Posting - nothing to see here, move along there!

Oh bother, I'm replying again, well to Crossthreaded:- I seem to have had a running subscription to Car Mechanics Mag for many many years, probably an on going annual present from my wife - I'd also been buying it for as long as I can remember it and what was its competition since mid 1970's.

I liked the article on wheel bearings last month, I learned a bit about the evolving designs, but as usual I come away from reading these specialist articles with a strong sense that the writer is either still learning a lot or being a light on his research and at times miss hearing what has been said when "face to face" with an authority on any branch of "car workings/fixings" - so of the "old guard" seemed to work harder and I never noticed them "winging it".

Anyway, this month's Car Mechanic has been taken out of its wrapper and is waiting for me to attend to it, I seem to be taking longer than expected to do all the jobs that I want to on my 2011 Audi S4, as it started with just an oil+filter change + supercharger+auxiliary belts which meant it was up onto 4 Jackpoint jackstands and wheels off bumper cover off and lock carrier moved out to the service position, so brakes got cleaned up, any rusting on subframes etc got scrapped off and coated with a mixture of Owatoyl oil+Hammerite Smooth Black + all wheel arch liners off and end sections of underbody plastic coverings and again any signs of slight surface rust wire brushed off > rust treatment applied > wire brushed+washed > dried + Owatoyl oil+Hammerite Smooth Black > a quick slobber with Waxoyl then all back together - but all that takes times waiting for "stuff" to dry, so days and days of only an hour's work followed by fan heaters being left on for another few hours!

Then the joiner arrived to refurbish the utility room - and was let down by Howdens deliverywise, no new work top, so,,, joiner left to do another job - and Howdens came up with the goods which have filled up one side of my double garage - car is diagonally across the garage so that I can get best use of the space! Oh bother bother bother, still I started this "service" on the 27th of August, so I'm not exactly rushing it!

I was surprised by the amount of gravel and dirt that was being "collected and stored" on top of the both of the side "chassis" rails, good to find and vac out!

Finding that makes me think that I should consider doing the same on the 2015 Polo, I did remove the long plastic side undercovers on my wife's previous 2002 Polo at the mid life point.

The only problem so far with the 2011 S4 (with its shocking mileage - ie 24K miles) was the price of the small clips, one on either side of the front wheel arch liners, both broke when removed and being a sort of perfectionist in my own way, I just had to replace them, Google searches indicated that they would "cost a bit" and only being offered by ebay sellers in USA, so it was not exactly a surprise when my online parts contact handed me over the price - trouble is, these are "Audi only" parts, so costs are allowed to be excessive - a very big "ouch" from my wallet! I'll probably frame the old ones.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Like you RUM, I'll make a possibly final comment on this - and it is that, over the many years I've been involved with vehicles which run belts I've seen some very ambitious initial recommendations as to service intervals which have been subsequently reduced, sometimes quite substantially, in the light of real world use after the engines come into service. As I've said earlier this is often due not to short comings in the belt itself (with the possible exception of the earlier "wet" belts which ran in engine oil?) but to ancillaries failing (water pump, idler, tensioner bearings being favourites). Although there are exceptions, I've found, in recent years, it's rare to find one failing in under 50,000 miles/5 years so, as that's what VAG dealers are recommending for the EA211, I'll be doing exactly that with mine. In the grand scheme of things it's not a lot of money once every five years even if you are getting the garage to do it - just be thankful it's not a chain! Modern chains seem to be failing at surprisingly low mileages and you don't want to be paying to get one of them done. Car Mechanics Magazine this month did a very interesting and informative feature on engine oils - all 8 pages of it! Near the end it gave a complete list of the API oil spec sequences starting at 2001 with SJ. It's the first time I've seen the existence of "SN Plus" acknowledged - an oil I've been using in the Fiats for a few years now. Then there's the new SP introduced in May of this year (2020) - a spec I'd not previously heard of, and I'm very interested in oils - especially in relation to direct injection engine problems. It's definition includes "protection against LSPI" (Low Speed Pre Ignition) which is a problem suffered by direct injection petrol engines, especially I believe if they are turboed, as so many are these days. It also defines "protection for timing chain wear, deposits on pistons and turbochargers and more stringent sludge and varnish control" (could they be trying to address port fouling? VERY interesting stuff don't you think? Once again I find myself completely convinced that extended interval oil changes were invented by the devil to empty the pockets of the poor unsuspecting mechanically ignorant members of "Joe Public"

However RUM, as you so rightly say above, Time will tell!

OOOPS! Sorry folks, Its API GL4 plus gear oil (Petronas Tutela Technyx to be specific) I've been using for years - not SN plus engine oil! Senior moment I'm afraid!

 

[Crossthreaded]

Warning Off Topic Posting - nothing to see here, move along there!

Oh bother, I'm replying again, well to Crossthreaded:- I seem to have had a running subscription to Car Mechanics Mag for many many years, probably an on going annual present from my wife - I'd also been buying it for as long as I can remember it and what was its competition since mid 1970's.

I liked the article on wheel bearings last month, I learned a bit about the evolving designs, but as usual I come away from reading these specialist articles with a strong sense that the writer is either still learning a lot or being a light on his research and at times miss hearing what has been said when "face to face" with an authority on any branch of "car workings/fixings" - so of the "old guard" seemed to work harder and I never noticed them "winging it".

Anyway, this month's Car Mechanic has been taken out of its wrapper and is waiting for me to attend to it, I seem to be taking longer than expected to do all the jobs that I want to on my 2011 Audi S4, as it started with just an oil+filter change + supercharger+auxiliary belts which meant it was up onto 4 Jackpoint jackstands and wheels off bumper cover off and lock carrier moved out to the service position, so brakes got cleaned up, any rusting on subframes etc got scrapped off and coated with a mixture of Owatoyl oil+Hammerite Smooth Black + all wheel arch liners off and end sections of underbody plastic coverings and again any signs of slight surface rust wire brushed off > rust treatment applied > wire brushed+washed > dried + Owatoyl oil+Hammerite Smooth Black > a quick slobber with Waxoyl then all back together - but all that takes times waiting for "stuff" to dry, so days and days of only an hour's work followed by fan heaters being left on for another few hours!

Then the joiner arrived to refurbish the utility room - and was let down by Howdens deliverywise, no new work top, so,,, joiner left to do another job - and Howdens came up with the goods which have filled up one side of my double garage - car is diagonally across the garage so that I can get best use of the space! Oh bother bother bother, still I started this "service" on the 27th of August, so I'm not exactly rushing it!

I was surprised by the amount of gravel and dirt that was being "collected and stored" on top of the both of the side "chassis" rails, good to find and vac out!

Finding that makes me think that I should consider doing the same on the 2015 Polo, I did remove the long plastic side undercovers on my wife's previous 2002 Polo at the mid life point.

The only problem so far with the 2011 S4 (with its shocking mileage - ie 24K miles) was the price of the small clips, one on either side of the front wheel arch liners, both broke when removed and being a sort of perfectionist in my own way, I just had to replace them, Google searches indicated that they would "cost a bit" and only being offered by ebay sellers in USA, so it was not exactly a surprise when my online parts contact handed me over the price - trouble is, these are "Audi only" parts, so costs are allowed to be excessive - a very big "ouch" from my wallet! I'll probably frame the old ones.

My word, you have been busy haven't you. I've been meaning to fit new rear wheel cylinders to our Panda (probably metal pipes too, looking at the state of the old ones) and attend to the rusty rear axle beam ( a 169 model Panda weak point) all summer, but due to serious family illness and childcare for grandchildren, to say nothing of helping with my youngest boy's extensive house extension, I've still to make a start on it. The cylinders are only weeping slightly - damp under the dust rubbers - and I'm starting to think, as the cold weather is coming in and I work in my driveway, that I might see if they'll last till next spring - with frequent checks to keep an eye on things.

Yup. "Stupid" plastic clips! I had to remove the front tray from my daughter-in-law's 2008 Honda Jazz earlier this year to replace the aux belt (remember when we used to call them "fan" belts?) The clips are of the type where a central plunger, when pressed in, cause jaws to spread out and grip the hole they fit into. I've seen this type before, although the Honda ones are particularly robust and more massively proportioned than ones I've seen previously, and usually they are not too bad to remove as you simply push the central plunger right through. Not the Honda ones. the central plunger has a "head" which you are supposed to use to lever it out. Probably this works fine on a younger car but the combination of road dirt/grit and the brittle aging plastic conspired to ensure all but two of them disintegrated! Unlike you, I was lucky to find a cheap source of supply on ebay so she just had to run around for a few days with no shield in place whilst they shipped. I've coated the new ones with copa slip in the hope they will be easier to remove next time, although there may not be a next time as the car is getting old enough now that quite a lot of things seem to be going wrong - the latest being a broken front spring - and she's thinking of replacing the car itself.

I too have a subscription to CM, given me by my wife. I've been buying this publication, almost every month, since the 60's - does that qualify me for some sort of award? As you say, sometimes, you do get the feeling that some of the specialist articles are written from the standpoint of repeated research rather than personal knowledge and expertise. None the less they are always very interesting and I find I learn a lot from them. I think it's the best magazine for people like us that's currently being produced. The electronic diagnostics features are very interesting and have helped me go up the "ladder of learning" I'd love to see someone introduce one that concentrated on electronic diagnostics exclusively, but probably there isn't the audience for that?

Please don't worry about straying from the subject, I always enjoy your very knowledgeable posts.

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes Car Mechanics after the demise of Practical (Car?) Mechanics and was it Popular Motoring and for a short while Hot Car, did all offer some useful advice, sort of good to see Car Mechanics is back with its original publishing house.

Plastic expanding rivets - hum, on the front wheel arch liners for the S4 there is one medium sized one per side - but the T shaped expander is tiny - but they both eased out okay. Behind the main under engine removable cover on that S4 is another shorter one, held on with maybe a screw on both sides and a monster of an expanding rivet - I used as much force as I felt the T shaped expander pin would take - then hammered it back in, after that I sprayed quite a lot of WD40 down into it, so maybe when I've finished on the rear wheel arch liners area, I will take it off these jack stands and up onto 4 big wooden ramps, and get these monster expanding rivet fixings out - or maybe not! I want to find out where a slight leak of oil is coming from.

Passing through Fairmilehead before lunch time part of the road looked very whitish, maybe the Bear road gritter has been out on the bypass over night and was swopping sides/directions at that point, so if so, time to finish off these pre winter jobs and hide inside I think!

Next problem with the kitchen or utility units being stored in my garage is - joiner has just phoned, from hospital, he is getting one of his hands stitched up, so starting to fit that collection of parts could slip a day, oh bother!