Rolling Road Results

[timbotdi]

Righty then... had a fantastic day on Saturday down at Storm's Rolling Road in Aldermaston. There was over 40 VAG cars, with 30 odd running on the rollers... Quite a few non-dervs from this forum attended too.

Here's my car on the rollers:

Maximum power at the wheels was recorded as 165.9BHP @ 3330RPM, and 281lb/ft @ 2691RPM... This translates into a stonking 221.2BHP and 382lb/ft!?

Fair to say I'm pretty happy, considering the block's heading towards 155,000 miles! Storm didn't give an estimated flywheel torque rating, but am I right to assume the same ratio as for the BHP?

Here's the link to the day's photos / vids:

http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/djwoodle/Storm Rolling Road Day/

Cheers,

T

 

[timbotdi]

Couple of sweet pics taken by a guy on the No Rice forums...

And the full album:

http://www.dorkish.com/index.php?a=albums/Motorsport And Shows/2007/Storm Developments RR Day/&fr=0

Cheers,

T

 

[Sisson]

Nice figs...

Car looks ace too

Just one question.

My Ibiza TDI made 161bhp and 301 lb/ft at the wheels, how did you calculate the flywheel figure?

 

[timbotdi]

The BHP was calculated by Storm, on the print out... 165.9BHP=221.2BHP. Using the same ratio (ie. 1 : 1.333), the torque figure at the fly is approx. 380lb/ft - tho this does seem very high!

Using the same ratio, your approx. flywheel figures are 215BHP and 400lb/ft!

T

 

[Sisson]

That can't be right???

Was only a PD130 with Custom code 1 ,Forge FMIC, and mufflerectomy

I thought transmission losses were around 15% max on FWD cars

 

[timbotdi]

I imagine there is a massive variation between different rolling roads, transmission, etc. However, I think the main confusion here is with your original figures...

A remapped PD130 with mods as described would almost certainly be making 161BHP / 300lb/ft at the flywheel, not at the wheels.

T

 

[Sisson]

Those are wheel figures, Not flywheel

 

[timbotdi]

Fair enough... Well this being my first Rolling Road session, I'm no expert. I'd suggest you go back to Awesome and ask them what the conversion figures are for their rolling road.

T

 

[e5sta]

great pics - was a wicked day out - and no it wasnt me that broke the rollers

 

[timbotdi]

Twas a fantastic day overall... Must say your car came came a close second to the black Corrado as my favourite of the day!

I'd left by the time yours was up on the rollers... what happened? Or not, as the case may be! ;o)

Finally got my graph up...

T

 

[e5sta]

Twas a fantastic day overall... Must say your car came came a close second to the black Corrado as my favourite of the day!

I'd left by the time yours was up on the rollers... what happened? Or not, as the case may be! ;o)

T

wow thanks :$ that black rado was lush tho

erm wel first of all my engine cover was knocking but they stopped and asked if i wanted to continue - they said it was fine - just made a horrible banging - so i said carry on - then im not sure how or what happened but my car went off the clocks at just over 150 (obviously no wind resistance - it wouldnt get anywhere near that on the road) but a sensor stopped workin on the rollers so couldnt get a reading on it

i did get one figure tho - 140.3bhp at the fly and 105 at the wheel
i did say i would be happy with over 135 at the fly so all in all not too bad
seeing as i havent touched the engine yet its good to get a figure before i start messing about with it

they managed to fix the rollers a short while later - but didnt want to put my car on again lol

yours got a nice result on the rollers

 

[timbotdi]

Sorry to hear about your problems - still, good figures had on the run you did get...

Must say I'm impressed the car exceeded Allard's estimates, given it was due a fine-tune of the map. May be able to squeeze out a couple more horses / torques!

T

 

[john_tdi]

I'm not 100% but I think when given a torque reading, you don't convert wheel to fly. I think its fly torque anyway.

I think it's because bhp and whp are both calculated from this, I've never heard of an estimated torque figure.

 

[cordobabrendy]

I might be wrong but I think the 1.33 you refer to is the multiplication factor when calculating airflow to bhp using vagcom, it doesnt sound right trying to use that factor for calculating losses. Even for vagcom, ive found it closer to 1.25-1.3 going by rr's and airflow logged during them.

 

[john_tdi]

I'd agree. Once had a car that did 147 whp (k+n warrington) and 181bhp (westec) and 186bhp (power engineering), which is arount the 1.2 mark. But cars do vary on transmission losses.

 

[timbotdi]

Well...

The local specialist that look after my car don't see any reason why it wouldn't follow the same ratio - i.e 1:1.333, so for me 281@ the wheels = 382lb/ft at the fly.

I rang Storm to see if they could advise, but Andy was out on an errand. Will try and bell em back later on today.

Finally, spoke to Lloyd at Allard's yesterday afternoon... He was happy it made the 220BHP estimate, and the description of the curve / power delivery. Torquewise, he'd always estimated 350lb/ft, but said there's variations between past examples, eg. big bore de-cat exhaust, BMC CDA, etc...

He reckons I should be able to up the boost a little... should help burn off the soot, and give a lickle more power - exxxcelent! ;o)

T

 

[timbotdi]

Incidentally the torque figure is 100% at the wheels - the graph makes it all plain to see.

The conversion figure of 1.333 is simply working back Storm's estimates - nothing to do with VAGCom.

Other results from the day proved the reliability of the rollers & estimation - a standard VR6 that went on before me made 176BHP at the flywheel - converted on Storm's graph from 132BHP (the standard flywheel figure is 174BHP). It made 136lb/ft at the wheels, which following the same conversion makes 180lb/ft at the fly - slightly over, but a lot closer to the standard 173lb/ft it should be making.

T

 

[john_tdi]

thats cool, but remember you can't just use 1.3 for every car. Every car will have a different amount of transmission loss, take 4x4s for example, they lose alot more.

and your graph doesnt say if the torque is fly or wheels. So not that plain

tbh it makes more sense that your way over 300lbs anyway, but I'd want to dyno it somewhere to get the real figure at fly, if it were mine.

 

[Ibiza Evo 2]

I have 205.4hp at the wheels and 220.8hp at the flywheel.

I agree with john_tdi about the torque...it's measured at the flywheel.

 

[devonutopia]

One of my RR tests was just over 200 @ the wheels and 223 at the fly. That was with just 10% transmission losses. I can never really take one RR result as gospel and prefer to go to as many as possible and take averages of the lot.

Good result though.