Performance Woes

[George]

Right I've been tearing my hair out for a long long time now over this and would welcome some advice...

I have a Leon Cupra (early model so APP and K03) and went for a Stage 1 remap. Once it was applied to the car, I immediately thought that bottom end torque had increased as it felt a lot more brutal low end, but the power felt standard at the top end once 4000 RPM was hit.

Puzzled, I got hold of Will at P-Torque and explained to him and he invited me along for a diagnosis and a dyno test. On the dynos, the bottom end torque was up but peak power hit 176bhp so basically no difference to standard. He also did some VAG-COM logging and said that timing was 10 degrees out and it wasn't boosting as much... although he may be able to clarify if he remembers this.

I got back onto the guys who remapped the car and he came down the very next morning F.O.C from Leicester and spent a couple of hours trying to find a problem. He noticed the standard DV is sticking open slightly, so we replaced this with a Forge 007P but this didn't make much difference. He swapped the MAF for a new one - no difference. He cleaned the throttle body out - no difference. He did an N75 bypass - no difference. He did some other bypass with piping (can't remember exactly) and it pulled much stronger but still "tailed off".

Whilst this was going on we did some VAG COM logging which revealed massive boost drops at the top end where the flat spot was. The boost curve went up up up then a HUGE dip to 0 and then straight up again... In the end I got the car put back to standard and I'm in the process of getting a refund.

To help rule out whether or not the map would be at fault, I got hold of Badger 5 and went down there for a free Revo trial which really blew me away power wise but still wasn't quite as good as it should be...signifying an underlying problem with the car.

So off I went to a VW garage and had a full diagnosis which returned nothing but the temp sender being faulty ( I knew this already - which I've replaced now).

I'm at my wits end as it just seems to be an invisible issue that no one can find .......

I'm not alone as I found someone on another forum having a similar issue with their Mk4 Golf GTI.

Anyway, apologies for the giant post. If anyone could spare any constructive advice... anything at all then I'd be very appreciative.... thanks

 

[m0rk]

so the reduced 'power' trial didn't feel as good as it should do?

Who / what was the initial software? There's so many dodgey 'tuners' out there, they may well not have different files for K03 / K03s Leon's - hence the problem

However, the file might have been fine & you've got some airflow restriction... might be worth checking your SMIC isn't half tanked up with oil, as that's the low point

 

[Phillc]

might be worth checking your SMIC isn't half tanked up with oil, as that's the low point

This is very likely i have an 01 LC and when i put the LCR twin intercoolers on i found the LC intercooler had ALOT of oil in it, which is normal by the way, so i check mine every six months now.

 

[George]

Thanks for the reply. By "reduced power trial" do you mean Revos trials being about 80% power? I had read this somewhere but thought it was a rumour. EDIT: The trial felt much stronger than the original map but like I say it still wasn't 100%. It did seem to pull stronger into the red though...

With regards to the software - was carried out by Ecotech Performance. Are there different files for K03 and K03S turbos? That's news to me.

Thanks for your help so far

 

[m0rk]

yeah, the trial is setup for a car running the worst fuel, and because of the limitations it is dumbed down.

to be honest, you need to go with someone more mainstream (and familiar) with VW group cars - as I stated above, there's too many wannabee tuners out there just buying a CD of files, or ad-hoc over the net.

I would hope that 'bespoke' software for a car would be different between models with different hardware from the factory, but it's highly likely that the cheaper opportunist people will only have a limited supply of files, and as such may well never have seen the early german built leon's & assume they're the same as any other.

 

[traumapat]

power bands and bhp/lbsft will be different between the two turbos so different maps.

if youve a ko3s map on there your turbo wont be able to physically do what its being asked.

 

[George]

Hmm think you guys have identified the problem then! If what you're saying is definitely true (and I don't doubt your knowledge), this would be the issue as the remapper said that he put the exact same map on his 04 plate Cupra (AUQ and K03S I'm guessing) and said it goes like stink.

So basically if I was to have a correct map put on the car, it should pull better than the Revo trial?

I also see mixed figures - i.e. some tuners claim 215-220bhp out of the 180 Cupra with just a Stage 1 map, but I've since been led to believe this is optimistic as generally this is for the K03S. What should I realistically expect with my K03?

Thanks

 

[m0rk]

200bhp/230lbft is about right for a k03 stage 1

I hope you get your refund... and go see Bill - he'll not let you drive off until it's "right"

 

[George]

200bhp/230lbft is about right for a k03 stage 1

I hope you get your refund... and go see Bill - he'll not let you drive off until it's "right"

Thanks, so do I. I love this forum, within minutes of posting I get a solution that makes sense and is most likely correct....

Thanks for your help

 

[R-Tech Tuning]

Hello,
I am Nick Gower from R-Tech Remaps; I provide all the support and back up for Ecotech Performance. The results we are getting from the 1.8Ts are some of the best around, custom and generic remapping. A quick read on the mk4 golf gti forums should fill you will confidence.

There is a major issue with this engine which needs sorting before you get anyone else’s remap on the car. I am willing to help you out mate as long as you can believe me and listen to me.

I spent 2+hours looking over this car. We cleaned the TB, and then we found the diaphragm in the OEM Bosch DV had totally shot it. (I could suck and blow down the vac nipple on the dv) I took a 007p DV out of stock and fitted it to the car as part of trial and error testing, the car still felt the same and top end... no power and lumpy boost. When we logged the data the ecu was requesting the correct values but the engine was not returning them... The actual boost had a nasty drop off higher up the rpm range while the spec boost was asking for more.

I then looked in the turbo side of things a bit more and found a split vac pipe, so I carried out a temp N249 bypass to take all the vac pipe out of the equation. Another logging session and the issue was still there??? The next step was to try and get the car to boost right with out any ecu control which meant us controlling the boost with out the N75 in place.....And still the car would not hold the boost higher up the rev range. Which leads me to say there is a major issue somewhere that needs sorting out prior to remapping. I returned the car back to stock and told ecotech to refund you in full because of this under lying issue that needs sorting out.

Your car is still running with a naffed DV and split VAC pipes which you need to get fixed first before and further diagnostics and logging can be carried out.
The revo remaps are very aggressive down low with power tail off higher up the rev range, so you would get a stronger feeling coming on to boost. But back to back the ecotech remap would feel a hell of a lot more stronger than the revo remap... if the engine was 100% spot on... And this is proven fact! I specialise in just tuning the 1.8Ts & 1.9TDI engines and I know them like the back of my hand and how they should perform.

IMO this car needs to be booked in to a work shop and have many hours of diagnostics.

The last car we had like this had a naffed turbo. Once the turbo was sorted out it ended up annihilating all the major remap names like for like at a dyno dynamics rolling road day down south.

Links and photos to be added

Nick

 

[sicupra]

The last car we had like this had a naffed turbo. Once the turbo was sorted out it ended up annihilating all the major remap names like for like at a dyno dynamics rolling road day down south.

 

[m0rk]

sicupra & R-Tech Tuning are using a shared login...... this is absolutely against our rules.

hidden agenda somewhere I think....

 

[R-Tech Tuning]

sicupra & R-Tech Tuning are using a shared login...... this is absolutely against our rules.

hidden agenda somewhere I think....

LOL!! Its easy to work out.. I asked sicupra fro his log in so I could post up the url links, He could not do it because he was out driving.

Look in to the past history and track the IPs if you know how, you will see all of Simons posts are from up North wales way and the last 2 posts are from Leicestershire well over 100 miles away. So no hidden agenda m8. Just needed to do it to finish my post off because it said I needed 15 posts to add urls..?

Can you see the light now?

Regards
Nick
R-Tech

 

[m0rk]

Nick,

I don't need to "see the light" - I'm just pointing out that 'some' comments that are made, are not likely to be honest & true - especially when it's evident that a user is being puppeted but a tuner.

remember, I don't come to your house & **** on the carpet, don't do it in mine.

 

[R-Tech Tuning]

Just to add.. A 2004 1.8T remap wont work on a 2000 1.8T. The 2004 file is 1mb and the old map for the APP ko3 is 512kb. The same mapping "method" is used to request the extra power from the engine.

The APP will push 200bhp-240lbft max.

Nick
R-Tech

 

[R-Tech Tuning]

LOL

The hidden agenda is elsewhere I think.

I have added the truth to this thread and that is it.

Sorry if I have **** on your carpet, but aint forums for open discussions?



Nick

 

[S3 AKR]

Mucky carpets aside........ Is this not also a symptom of the TIP collapsing under the extra boost ? Not saying that this is the problem but wondered if it gave a similar "fault" ?

 

[sicupra]

No one is puppeting me mork, unlike yourself with revo and anyone else that pays your sponsorship fees!!
As nick said I was out. Replacing yet another (major tuning company) map with one of ours on someones LCR, as they wernt happy with it.
Once again, as is always the case another very very happy customer of mine.

But lets get back to georges problem.

That car was absolutly awesome when it left us. Myself and george went on an extremley long test and he couldnt take the smile of his face. It was lacking in absolutly nothing. I was then informed that there were issues after his 2 hr drive home.
We bent over backwards to help this guy, we spent alot of time and money between us trying to solve the problem. As youve seen from Nicks post we have covered almost everything and advised as best we can.
We have refunded george, although this wont solve his problem. There is some underlying issues with that car, its nothing to do with the file though. The exact same file has been uploaded to 2 APP engines since and 2 previous and we have had no issues with those.

 

[m0rk]

Just to clarify - nobody running SEATCupra.net makes any money (or takes any money personally) from any sponsor - all funds are held totally seperately from any personal finances, and run the site, including software, licences, location of server, bandwidth & the significant purchase of servers.

As such, I do not & will not tolerate personal attacks upon myself of other admin & have banned you from the site (and your co-worker)

Any further interaction or attempts to re-register will result in our default action.

What a professional attitude to take? I think your words speak volumes..