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prob up to 300lbs/ft , even less some get slip
with a remap/exhaust on your FR etc you'll be fine.
with a remap/exhaust on your FR etc you'll be fine.
Surely it's not the 'peak' torque that really counts, but the amount of torque run at high load on the clutch (ie: lower down the rev range). So it depends on your driving style, etc.
T. Spark
Guest
niw2500 said:
All depends on driving style and remap.
The average as said above seems to be 300lb ft.
I have around 290lb ft, I dont granny it, have had a remap for over 20,000 miles and still no clutch slip, mostly due to the curve of torque on my remap and not just spikeyness (is that a word!?)
niw2500 said:
But id assume you want to uprate the power? Seems like your being a little picky, the std power/torque the clutch can cope with.
If you start with remaps, induction kits and zorsts its logical and safe to uprate brakes and clutches.
Revo Kev said:
Isnt the peak torque at low revs (1900k) on a oil burner?
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T. Spark said:
As I posted elsewhere today, the ideal remap would be one where peak torque is limit lowdown to a sensible level, but the top end is stronger for outright power during hard acceleration.
With regards to a "safe" torque level, I think you have to stick a reasonable way below 300lbft. My Ibiza generated around 260-270lbft and suffered slip, as does my Passat (which I'm assuming is around 270-280lbft).
Even owners of some standard Cupra TDIs are getting slip, and they are a long way under 300lbft.
EDIT: It's not the power figures you have to worry about with the clutch, you can still have a very high peak power figure, because peak power occurs at the top end of the rev range when torque is dropping off.
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Mine is built up as follows. Torque buildup to 380NM at 2200rpm and then 425 NM at 3000 rpm. No clutch problems thus far.
flatfourburble
Guest
I know of a few people with the PD130 (in which ever form i.e. fabia or ibiza) that get clutch slip with 290ish or more of torque.
Hammer it low in the rev range and chances are you will suffer from clutch slip. Mine has about 310lb/ft and in general it doesn't slip, but I'm not a quick drive and use it mostly up and down the motorway. The key is to learn when it slips and adapt your driving style to suit.
Though that is just my view.
Hammer it low in the rev range and chances are you will suffer from clutch slip. Mine has about 310lb/ft and in general it doesn't slip, but I'm not a quick drive and use it mostly up and down the motorway. The key is to learn when it slips and adapt your driving style to suit.
Though that is just my view.
Triple D
Guest
You sure about your torque figures young man?
as even i with a hyrbid turbo do not produce that much, and to be quite frank, there is no way in hell that your clutch would cope with that amount of torque, as its almost double what it is supposed to have. I know i work for sachs and i also know what tollerances a standard clutch can cope with.
Have u had your car rolling roaded? and ifso, do they have a good reputation for being accurate? as if u only have a remap. then your results are crap and i would get them checked.!!!!
as even i with a hyrbid turbo do not produce that much, and to be quite frank, there is no way in hell that your clutch would cope with that amount of torque, as its almost double what it is supposed to have. I know i work for sachs and i also know what tollerances a standard clutch can cope with. Have u had your car rolling roaded? and ifso, do they have a good reputation for being accurate? as if u only have a remap. then your results are crap and i would get them checked.!!!!
Car has been on roller's here in finland, and the place is good one. Car has cupra ic , 2,5" exhaust and cupra intake, egr disabled.. Weather was about 25C. Place makes it's own software is well known and respected(20 years of experience in tuning cars..rally, drag race, street, track car, anything..has even developed their own engine management system). They sais that's the maximum the injectors can do(maxium spray time).. It blows a bit off black(or is it soot you say?) from exhaust... roll results, 194hp/486Nm (converter nm->lb-ft: http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/converter.htm) I have no reason to doupt the result, knowing their rep, but I bet in a different place it can vary 10-20NM, and depending on weather temperature too.
What I have read in forums here and seen results the stock 6speed(240mm) clutch will cope with 330lb-ft, if not too badly abused.. Depending on the weight of the car ofcourse..Passat, Golf, Ibiza...
- post-30y. young man..
What I have read in forums here and seen results the stock 6speed(240mm) clutch will cope with 330lb-ft, if not too badly abused.. Depending on the weight of the car ofcourse..Passat, Golf, Ibiza...
- post-30y. young man..
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I would like to ask some questions about your car and the dyno printout you got if you do not mind.pine said:Car has been on roller's here in finland, and the place is good one. Car has cupra ic , 2,5" exhaust and cupra intake, egr disabled.. Weather was about 25C. Place makes it's own software is well known and respected(20 years of experience in tuning cars..rally, drag race, street, track car, anything..has even developed their own engine management system). They sais that's the maximum the injectors can do(maxium spray time).. It blows a bit off black(or is it soot you say?) from exhaust... roll results, 194hp/486Nm (converter nm->lb-ft: http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/converter.htm) I have no reason to doupt the result, knowing their rep, but I bet in a different place it can vary 10-20NM, and depending on weather temperature too.
What I have read in forums here and seen results the stock 6speed(240mm) clutch will cope with 330lb-ft, if not too badly abused.. Depending on the weight of the car ofcourse..Passat, Golf, Ibiza...
- post-30y. young man..
You drive a PD130 with factory figures of 128 bhp and 229 lb or 310 nm torque.
You have a FMIC,exhaust plus a Cupra air intake fitted.
You first dyno reading is 158 bhp and 284 lb or 386 nm torque which is 41 lb or 55.5 nm more then a factory PD160 cupra ?
Then your second run made 194 bhp and 358lb or 486 nm. A remapped PD160 makes 195-200 bhp if your lucky ( which has a bigger stronger turbo then the PD 130 ) with about 305 lb or 413 nm of torque which is 53 lb or 72 nm less then your dyno printout says.
You can only go on the information givern to you so i am not having a go at you Pine but do you not find that a bit strange ? If you had 360 lb or 486 nm of torque you should have about 260 bhp not 194.
Click on the link below and scroll down to phase 4 to follow what i mean.
http://www.allardmotorcompany.com/pages/products/info/vw-audi-seat-skoda-phase-1-2-3-4.asp
Not offended by questions..But I know few pd130 leons and others that have gotten around 140-150hp from a stock engine/program on rollers. From pd150: http://www.seatclubfinland.com//images/amw0504/leon150tdi.jpg 170+hp and 's 370Nm(stock car). All the tdi I know have had more power than factory has told. Mine had 158hp/386Nm with stock program and not the first one to have such numbers. Biggest reason for that is big ic and exhaust, tells me the 'softwaremaker'.
Couple of car I've hear have been testes in two different roller and the power difference was around 10-15Nm. Stock pd100hp passat had 115hp and so on.. The person who made the program is really capable on doing things and told that usually all tdi's have had more power than the factory paper says.
We don't have pd160 here in finland, so I don't have any comparison to that from here..That would help. I know that from pd150 the same get 203-203hp when maxed out the nozzletiming. Problem is that now the turbo backpressure is really high (intake pressure 1,5bar max, turbo backpressure probably around 2,5bar..) which highly problematic and is waiting for a hybrid or vnt20 setup.
BUT...There's a bit same with the allard hp-numbers(or what you guys get hp numbers there): here all software makers say, you can't get over 200(-+2hp)hp with the stock 130/150 nozzles, and Allard promises to get you 230hp. But they say you can get the torque I have, and what many others have.
Edit: I what comes to clutch slipping...I have my fingers cross, but I'mm 99% sure that any day now..It'll happen (I just have been punishing enough I guess.. )
Couple of car I've hear have been testes in two different roller and the power difference was around 10-15Nm. Stock pd100hp passat had 115hp and so on.. The person who made the program is really capable on doing things and told that usually all tdi's have had more power than the factory paper says.
We don't have pd160 here in finland, so I don't have any comparison to that from here..That would help. I know that from pd150 the same get 203-203hp when maxed out the nozzletiming. Problem is that now the turbo backpressure is really high (intake pressure 1,5bar max, turbo backpressure probably around 2,5bar..) which highly problematic and is waiting for a hybrid or vnt20 setup.
BUT...There's a bit same with the allard hp-numbers(or what you guys get hp numbers there): here all software makers say, you can't get over 200(-+2hp)hp with the stock 130/150 nozzles, and Allard promises to get you 230hp. But they say you can get the torque I have, and what many others have.
Edit: I what comes to clutch slipping...I have my fingers cross, but I'mm 99% sure that any day now..It'll happen (I just have been punishing enough I guess..
)
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standard injectors will max out at 220ish bhp, maybe more...
194bhp sounds believable from the mods you have but the torque seems a bit high, anyhow, if thats what figures they told you then well done....
194bhp sounds believable from the mods you have but the torque seems a bit high, anyhow, if thats what figures they told you then well done....
Well, there is a link to the dyno paper on my earlier reply if it matters. Haven't had a possibility to run 1/4 mile yet, but on the to-do-list..That should give more things to compare..
We are maybe getting a bit off topic here..But as I wrote, here they say 200 is when the injectors max out, but the torques are much higher. I wonder what makes the difference, is it the way the rollers (right term?) are calibrated here and there or is there really two so different ways to do it?
We are maybe getting a bit off topic here..But as I wrote, here they say 200 is when the injectors max out, but the torques are much higher. I wonder what makes the difference, is it the way the rollers (right term?) are calibrated here and there or is there really two so different ways to do it?
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