Logs and correction factors on LCR

[Ronin225]

Just been out today with Phill to log the car for the first time, did a few runs but only one full one which was the first
After each log we stopped and had a look and chat then did another and noticed as we did each consecutive run the correction factors were increasing
So what exactly causes the correction factors and how do they affect the performance?
We did think possibly heat as i still run OE side mounts.
Anyway if anyone could have a peruse of these and see what you think?? Also car runs OE map, Cheers

Wednesday	9	February	2011	16:25:50											
1ML 906 032 A  		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	'115				Group B:	'003				Group C:	'020			
		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
	1.13	3120	154.1	1790	1850	1.53	3280	93.36	100	15	0.63	0	0	0	0
	2.34	3520	151.1	1820	1830	2.74	3680	106.39	100	17.3	1.93	0	0	0	0
	3.75	4000	151.9	1790	1820	4.15	4120	119.75	100	18	3.24	0	0	0	3
	5.05	4400	154.1	1800	1810	5.45	4520	131.61	100	17.3	4.55	0	0	0	2.3
	6.36	4800	150.4	1800	1800	6.76	4920	143.31	100	15	5.86	0	0	0	2.3
	7.57	5120	148.9	1820	1820	8.07	5280	153.61	100	16.5	7.16	3	0	0	1.5
	8.87	5480	155.6	1880	1880	9.27	5600	167.97	100	16.5	8.47	2.3	0	0	0.8
	10.18	5840	158.6	1900	1930	10.58	5920	178.89	100	13.5	9.68	2.3	0	3	0.8
	11.4	6120	153.4	1840	1930	11.89	6240	177.72	99.6	15.8	11	1.5	3	3	0
	12.69	6400	151.9	1760	1840	13.11	6480	178.67	100	16.5	12.31	0.8	2.3	2.3	3
Wednesday	9	February	2011	16:37:21											
1ML 906 032 A  		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	'115				Group B:	'003				Group C:	'020			
		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
	0.42	3120	157.1	1860	1980	0.82	3200	94.92	100	9	0	3	3	0	3
	1.62	3440	148.9	1870	1880	2.01	3600	101.5	100	13.5	1.22	3	3	0	3
	2.83	3800	148.9	1850	1870	3.23	3920	112.5	100	13.5	2.41	2.3	2.3	0	2.3
	4.03	4160	148.1	1840	1850	4.43	4280	122.03	99.2	16.5	3.63	1.5	1.5	0	1.5
	5.44	4520	147.4	1850	1860	5.84	4640	132.19	100	15.8	4.94	4.5	1.5	0	1.5
	6.85	4920	147.4	1850	1860	7.25	5000	141.25	100	16.5	6.35	4.5	0.8	0	0.8
	8.06	5200	148.9	1890	1880	8.46	5320	153.17	100	12.8	7.64	3.8	0	6	3
	9.28	5480	154.1	1940	1940	9.77	5600	167.33	100	12	8.86	3	3	6	3
	10.67	5800	154.9	1930	1950	11.07	5880	173.11	99.6	12.8	10.17	3	3	5.3	2.3
Wednesday	9	February	2011	16:42:23											
1ML 906 032 A  		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	'115				Group B:	'003				Group C:	'020			
		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
	0.8	3000	159.4	1870	2040	0	2760	79.94	98.4	12	0.4	3	3	3	0
	2	3400	149.6	1880	1880	1.2	3160	91.47	99.6	6.8	1.6	2.3	3	2.3	0
	3.31	3840	151.1	1870	1890	2.42	3520	103.31	100	13.5	2.91	1.5	2.3	2.3	0
	4.62	4240	149.6	1850	1850	3.82	4000	114.47	100	16.5	4.22	1.5	1.5	4.5	0
	5.94	4600	146.6	1870	1880	5.02	4360	124.11	100	15	5.42	0.8	1.5	3.8	0
	7.23	4960	149.6	1870	1860	6.43	4760	136.92	100	11.3	6.83	3	0.8	3.8	0
	8.45	5280	148.9	1910	1920	7.65	5080	144.72	100	12.8	8.05	3	0	3	3
	9.76	5640	159.4	1950	1910	8.94	5440	158.89	100	13.5	9.34	2.3	3	2.3	2.3
	11.26	6000	153.4	1900	1990	10.27	5760	170.39	99.6	9	10.77	5.3	3	5.3	2.3
	12.68	6200	33.1	1000	2200	11.76	6080	172.25	99.6	12.8	12.17	4.5	2.3	5.3	4.5

 

[8bit]

Up to about a CF of 6 on some remaps at high revs is OK but surprising to see it seems to be pulling timing all the time on yours if you're OEM mapped. Airflow maybe just a smidge on the low side but I wouldn't have thought enough to upset fuelling enough to cause timing pull.

Can you log blocks 001, 031 and 020? This will give an idea of fuelling. SMICs should be coping OK with stock boost unless ambient air temp is very hot. Radiator and coolant OK?

 

[Phillc]

What actually are cf's and what causes them? air flow on the first run is about right though? 178 g/s = 223bhp

 

[8bit]

Depends what calculation you use. I thought x1.2 was the rule of thumb which would make that about 214. Did you multiply by 1.25? In any case, that's just a rough guide and it only tells you how much bhp your airflow is good for, not actually how much the car is making. With those CFs I doubt it's making it's full compliment.

CF = Correction Factors, my understanding is that this is the ECU pulling back the ignition timing because it's detecting knock in the cylinders. This can be caused by a bunch of things, under or overfuelling, excess cylinder temps, tired spark plugs or electrics not functioning correctly, more besides.

 

[Phillc]

Thanks, so it counld be a bunch of things . I used, divide 178 by .8

 

[Joeb]

cant give u any technical info here,

but when i switched to a front mounted intercooler, the correction factors decreased instantly meaning im now running a higher boost & timing.

perhaps suggesting heat soak could be a big factor here?
high temps, too much boost, not the right environment, so the ecu holds back?

 

[DPJ]

When running the advanced timing you'll normally find with mapped cars, it's usual to see a small amount of pre-ignition. (knock) This is due to the heat in the combustion chambers. If there's too much knock, the ecu will pull the timing back on each individual cylinder. This retardation is the correction factor. When you see more CFs after each run, it's because the engine is becoming heat-soaked.

 

[Phillc]

Cheers Dave, thats what we where thinking.

 

[Ronin225]

So in these few runs the CFs went from 1-2 upto some peaks of 6, just want to make sure its not going to go higher and cause damage
Is there a point where the heat soak hits an terminal point where the heat transfered is disipated as quickly?
At least now i have some logs to compare to when the 3" TIP and massive green cone go in

 

[DPJ]

That's why it's often said that seeing 6's on logging is a safe maximum. With these sort of figures, you might actually be getting 9's doing the same sort of power run in 6th gear.

If you're getting 9's on normal logging, you might be getting 12's in 6th. Not good. See my point?

 

[Ronin225]

I do, was surprised how quickly they came up too
As said above a FMIC should help keep the intake temps down, do you know which block this is as it could be interesting to log this too

 

[DPJ]

118 gives you inlet temps. (plus N75 duty cycle and actual boost)

Do no more than 2 at a time to get any reasonable samples.
003 and 020, then 115 and 031, then 118 and 032.
This gives you, airflow, actual timing, timing pull, requested boost, actual boost, target air fuel, actual airfuel, n75 duty, inlet temp, actual boost, and then finally fuel trims.

 

[Ronin225]

Cheers dave, will have to speak to phill nicely now about doing some more

 

[Phillc]

Yeah we will do some more Tim, i want to see what my fueling is doing, as my timing is set at -2.75 on unisettings and i am getting 6's but only on cylinder 2? i am also running the denso plugs so might change to the NGK ones.
Also need a new battery for the lap top it only lasts about 20 mins then goes flat.

 

[Joeb]

just to add/confirm

putting normal unleaded petrol dramatically increases the CF's.


would you guys say 11.5 - 12.5 AFR is a safe zone for fuelling?

ive been constantly keeping an eye on the fuelling over the past few months, as ive been using my revo SPS to change timing etc..

 

[ibizacupra]

afr looks fine