Leon & Oversteer

[rdjmoose]

Have a remapped Leaon Cupra TDI and I have had 3 intances in the last 2 weeks where the back end of my car has gone completely. It was not freezing although maybe a bit slippy and my tires are about 3mm all round.

It happened when I go into a tight corner and accelerate out of the it, the back end swings out and I have to fight to control the slide, which is a bit disconcerting in a front wheel drive car which should normally understeer if pushed.

Can anyone suggest why this might have happend, is it the 'lift of oversteer' effect and the fact I have poor tread on the tires with slippy road conditions?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Si]

It can't be 'Lift off oversteer' if your not Lifting off! You say are powering out of te corners. I would say just slippy conditions and tread getting low. The 1.6mm legal limit is far too low for my likeing. I change boots when i get to 2.5-3mm

I have only had one 'Oversteer' Slide but that was me lifting off round a roundabout showing a 325 BM up! lol Just boot the thottle and the car straights up on its own really.

 

[BlackCupraa]

When my Michelin Pilots got to around 3mm they were horrible no traction and i had the back out (without provocation)

So i would suggest new tyres allround

 

[rst_cupra_r]

id say new tyres 3mm is quite low really wen u think off all the traction u normally get wen there new so u will notice more and more as the tyre depth gets "thin"

 

[Cupra_power]

I have also noticed a dramatic difference in handling when the tyres get "tired" 4 mm and less, seems to start showing pretty heavy torque steer and pushing heavily into corners, which is cured with new rubber. So it is a good bet your boots need replacing.

 

[Ruddmeister]

3mm all round? have you swapped the wheels round??? IMO with the Leon I would recommend not swapping the tyres round, replace the first two that wear out and always put fresh rubber on the back.......yes you get understeer in the wet but it's easier to control than oversteer IMO.

Buy some decent tyres next time too, Goodyear Eagle F1 come highly recommended.

I lost my Leon Cupra twice.......third time I wrote it off, be careful out there

 

[DPJ]

3mm all round? have you swapped the wheels round??? IMO with the Leon I would recommend not swapping the tyres round, replace the first two that wear out and always put fresh rubber on the back.......yes you get understeer in the wet but it's easier to control than oversteer IMO.

Agreed. Like he said!

Some rubber is fine down to the limit, some appalling when worn. If the compound doesn't change when near the limit and wear is even, the water clearing properties of the tread pattern should remain the same.

 

[rdjmoose]

Sorry wasn't clear, I meant to say, did I get oversteer for similar reasons to why you get 'lift off oversteer' ? Before I entered the corner i brake to scrape off speed leaving less grip at the back as the weight shifts to the front, I then power out of the corner and I think the grip at the front tyres bites and the back end swings out. Would that sound about right as to why gthe oversteer is happening?

Is the best way to deal with oversteer in a front wheel drive car by hitting the throttle to get the weight and grip to the back tyres? Seems unnatural compared to dealing with oversteer in a rear whel drive car. And far more frightening

Will be getting new tyres come pay day though.

 

[Ruddmeister]

Is the best way to deal with oversteer in a front wheel drive car by hitting the throttle to get the weight and grip to the back tyres? Seems unnatural compared to dealing with oversteer in a rear whel drive car. And far more frightening

Will be getting new tyres come pay day though.

You can pull an FWD car out of a slide by hitting the gas, even at silly angles, so long as the breakaway is progressive......although in a Leon Cupra / LCR I find it snappy

 

[BlackCupraa]

Yup to save oversteer in a front wheel drive vehicle, just accelerate as the front end will just pull the back square (back wheels always follow the fronts!)

 

[mark sheerin]

I would say if its a tight corner even though you may be back on the throttle the momentum of the back as you braked before the turn is still carrying momentum and thus the back will still come around even if you are on the throttle..
Slower into the corner and more balanced with the brake and throttle..ie dont just lift one and up and bang the other down..slow off the brake and gentle onto the throttle..
with 3mm on the tyres you should still have grip unless you have too much pressure in them..this time of year no more than 38psi.
go easy on the steering too dont just 'wang' the car around..
You will never overcome the laws of physics you have to use them to your advantage and not have them work against you....

 

[honeyman]

Could be your ESP which can cut in a bit harsh (ie doing the lift off oversteer bit for you) just a thought as I get it sometimes when the ESP is on, yet struggle to get it to happen with it off.

 

[mark sheerin]

I dont think a leon cupra tdi has esp..mine hasnt..
only early petrol 20vts came with it as std...

 

[Triple D]

I was gonna ask if it had esp because i nearly had the back out twice yesterday on my ibiza while really trying to push it and that has esp, once was going into a corner quite fast and the car started to slide and the second time was whilst braking harshley from about 95 mph and moving into another lane and the back started to step out. I think like someone said, its just a mixture of crap conditions and quite low tyre wear.

 

[silverfox]

Leon back end is very prone to this if you haven't got quality tyres.

ALWAYS PUT YOUR BEST TYRES AT THE BACK AND BUY THE BEST TYRES YOU CAN AFFORD!! THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT TYRES!!

I learned this recently after sticking two new eagle F1's at the front and leaving the Continentals on the rear. I can now make this oversteer happen at will!!
Replacing the Continentals this week hopefully for another couple of Eagles.

Your incidents happened because you have the least grip at the rear and you've shifted the weight of the car from back to front when you braked so your back end may as well be on castors for all the grip you've got. Also, coming into winter months, it's only going to get worse! Buy quality rubber!

 

[slimjim]

I had a car a LONG time ago ....
had to do a big run in it so I check the tyres...

bald front tyres.... (FWD)

Went to get new tyres, only had two in, so I fitted them to the front.... P1's

Going round a roundabout ... pretty hairy as I was WELL impressed with the grip the new toyo's had given me..... back end dissapeared. eneded up facing the other way on the cone in the central reservation on the other side of the round about.

LISTEN TO SILVER FOX ..... he KNOWS what he is talking about.

 

[Tallpaul]

your car is very nose heavy, it should understeer. I don't agree that the amount of tread is the reason, i just think your cornering technique is dangerously unbalancing the car. Every FWD car i've owned (including my cupra on bald crappy bridgstone tyres) has had to be really thrown in to a corner to get the back end to slip.

My only ever write-off (so far, touch wood) was loosing the back end driving like a prat in the wet on an off-camber bend. My honest opinion is that it's you that's causing the oversteer.

Mind you, all good fun if you never crash!

 

[Nathanio]

Not just Leons this happens too! I had my first Toly TDI oversteering into corners if it was a bit greasy and I was coming in quickly. Found it very easy to control and hold the slide.

I got used to oversteer in my old Rover 214Si when there wasn't much weight over the rear wheels wet roads and roundabouts made for some great slides dead easy to hold and keep sliding or steer the slide out. Just about your reaction to the slide

 

[MarkE]

Swapped my front tyres to the back at 5000 miles. Replaced the front tyres at 9000 miles and discovered the joys of roundabout-based lift-off oversteer. The joy turned into dismay one Saturday morning at 6am on the way into work when I lost the back end in a big way and then stuffed it into a high kerb in a pendulum stylee trying to get it back.

Best tyres --> Back
Not-so-best tyres --> Front

Live with the understeer - it saves you £200 per new alloy.

 

[mark sheerin]

I allways work opposite to this much recommended set up and allways have my best tyres on the front..
I dont recommend that I am right or that you copy me but I prefer my best tyres on the front to give me better traction under acceleration and better braking in an emergency and also less chance of aquaplaning with the steering...
I realise that I will have a grip imbalance during two periods of my tyres life..ie just before swapping my front for new ones (where the back will have more grip) and just after swapping my fronts for new ones where the front will have more grip..
But this has never caused me any problems in many years of fwd hot hatchbacking