LCR Won't Start When Cold

[AntneeUK]

Guys,

For the past two days I've been unable to start my 52-plate LCR at 5:30am when it's cold. The lights all come on no problem, the radio powers up, the air con starts up, but when I turn the ignition the light on the hazard warning light switch goes off and the fans stop. When I release the key the fans start up again and the light on the hazards switch comes back on too. There is no sound at all and I have to remove the key to try again. The car starts fine when I get home from work when it's warmed up.

I only bought the car on Saturday and I'll be taking it back for the dealer (non-Seat) to look at later, but was hoping that some of you guys might have an idea about what could be the problem in the mean time? I'm a little annoyed about it happening when I'm on this shift, but if I took it to work when I'm on lates (when it's likely to start normally) then I reckon I'll end up stranded at work because it'll be really cold when I come to leave.

 

[LEE69]

So the car is not even turning over ie trying to start?

 

[AntneeUK]

No, you hear nothing at all, the fans just stop and the hazard switch dims. I'm guessing this is immobiliser behaviour, but why would that be affected by the cold?

 

[LEE69]

Sounds like the battery is dead in the morning, when you can get it started (jump lead/rac/aa) get to a kwik fit and they can load the battery to see if it is knackered or not.

 

[JamJay]

Can't be a dead battery, otherwise the radio and air con wouldn't work surely?

 

[LEE69]

Ok not dead but not enough to start a car, electrics take very little compared to the starter motor.

 

[JamJay]

Very true. Hopefully it's an easy fix for you then Antnee

 

[Willie]

A good start would be to switch off all other electircal appliances before trying to start the car. These an be too much of a drain on the battery when it needs all its power to spin up the starter motor.
Also try depressing the clutch to give the starter motor even less to rotate while trying to start the car.

Get the car onto a VAG com system (diagnostic) to see if there are any fault codes during or after this happening

 

[AntneeUK]

Sorry guys, meant to say; yesterday in the afternoon when it was starting OK I measured 12.5v when off, and 14.5v when running. This morning I measured 12.35v when it wouldn't start, so unless it's not able to output enough amps then I guess the battery is OK.

Does this not sound like immobiliser behaviour to you guys? Or is there a solenoid somewhere that could be causing it? I can't work out whether this is a cold or a moisture problem, as it's <5°c when I have the problem, but there's also a lot of moisture on the outside of the car

I've tried it with lights off, radio off, hand brake off, even in gear, all sorts, and it won't work, but only first thing in the morning

 

[Dave W]

Ok not dead but not enough to start a car, electrics take very little compared to the starter motor.

Like he says. The starter motor is the biggest electrical load in the car just look at the size of the cable going to it!
A multimeter would probably read about 12v off the battery as it's not producing any load, and the 14.5v you're getting when it's runing is being produced by the alternator & not the battery. That with it being cold outside would point to the battery, as cold is known to kill car batteries.
I would say it just not holding a charge, had the same happen on my own cars!

 

[AntneeUK]

Just tried it again and it's still not starting. ~11.75v when trying to turn it over. Sound about right?

 

[LEE69]

That's far to low voltage.
Try charging the battery or it might need replacing.

 

[Willie]

So alternator is obviously working as your getting the battery chanrge up to 14.5v but it doesn't seem to be holding or sustaining charge very well. As above I would change battery first then look for more complicated solutions if this doesn't work. Especially if you've bought it from a garage as they should be paying for this. I'm 100% sure they knew about this anyway

 

[AntneeUK]

They seem to think it's related the the barrel. Apparently a woman there had the same problem and by pulling the key as if removing it while starting the engine it worked. She said she didn't think to mention it because she thought they'd fixed it.

 

[AntneeUK]

OK, got home, put the key in and made sure it was pushed well in; no start. Turned it a little (so was locked in the barrel) and then pulled it a little outward, as if I was taking the key out; started first time. I can replicate the fault over and over.

SO... off back to the dealer on Thursday who is going to see if it's something that needs to be replaced or can be fixed. Until then I just have to make do. At least now we know what the problem is though. Phew!

 

[JamJay]

Hmmm ok, so a broken lock tumbler maybe or is the ignition barrel just completely shagged?

 

[LEE69]

There is a switch that fixes to the barrel, chances are it is that.

 

[AntneeUK]

Lee, is that the bit they call the 'Black Box'? A guy at work keeps referring to one and I've never heard of it!

 

[LEE69]

Yeah bolts to the main barrel unit, was a guide on here, linked to the mk4 site iirc, but i can't fnd it.

 

[AntneeUK]

Ah, he'll be well pleased if he was right Will find out for sure on Thursday. At least I can use the car in the mean time