LCR brakes ( not pads or discs thread)

[PlatinumR]

Hi experts,

need some help.

My LCR had it's 2 year brake fluid change at the dealers but during the change the machine broke and air got into the system.

Machine fixed and system re bled, went to drive the car - soft pedal.
Back in for an brake test, vag com check, nothing, it's ok sir.

straight back in with a soft pedal, really helpfull manager gets the system re - bled again - same result, soft pedal. The brakes are there it's just the pedal travel thats wrong.

I tell them it's not normal and to compare the feel of the other LCR on the forecourt which has a good solid pedal. ahh see what you mean.

They've carried out a manual bleed, machine bleed, vag com bleed, freed up a sticking front pad and on SEAT recommendation have clamped all brake hoses a bled one section at a time. Problem remains.

Seat UK have only a possible master cylinder fault or antiskid module problem as the culprit but will try a full system bleed from scratch beforehand.

The techs and the manager are great but we are all coming to a dead end, has anyone had this before after a fluid change or is it another problem that just showed up at a bad time?

Any ideas will be much apreciated. Thanks for reading.

 

[D3DNA]

In my experience with brakes, even after a brake fluid change and propper bleeding you will still experience a soft pedal.

 

[panholio]

So are you sayin that with time D3DNA that the pedal will firm up?

I've never had these problems on previous cars?

 

[PlatinumR]

I agree a soft pedal is not right and i've never had one on any car. mine was fine before the change.

D3DNA if you have a soft pedal your doing something wrong and I would get someone that knows what there doing to do your brakes.

I'm pretty sure that the air is no longer in there with the amount of bleeds it had, just wanted some more ideas apart from the cylinder or antiskid.

 

[m0rk]

they probably need to bleed the ABS unit.

 

[D3DNA]

It was softer that normal and then firmed up after a few hours.
Just for the record I don't do anything to my brakes, even though i'm mechanically competant I would rather get someone to do vital systems for me just in case I mess it up.

 

[Steamy]

I had my fluid changed at a service yesterday and I have to say that the car came back with the pedal as firm as it has ever been.
I would have to say it sounds like there is still air in the system somewhere. Also, I seem to remember that bleeding the brakes manually (puming the pedal up and down) can cause the master cylinder seals to reverse on occasion.

 

[Lionsio]

I think it´s just a matter of time. I mean, after fluid change the pedal feels soft, but after a few driving hours or a driving day the pedal gets back to its original hard feel.

At least, that happened to me last week when serviced the braking system of my Leon: pads change, fluid change and disc rectification.

When I toke off from the brake shop, the pedal was soft and even the breaking power went down, but after a few hours of been driving in the chaotic Mexico City traffic, the pedal just felt hard again and normal as used to be.

 

[Reg]

I can't agree with that - the pedal should be as firm as it was before. If it firms up after use i would say that just means any air in the system has worked its way out to the master cylinder, and hasn't been properly bled. It is a horrible job to do, but I think its totally unacceptable for a garage to give it back to you like that.

 

[PlatinumR]

I took the car at the end of the first day because i needed it for work ( nightshift) and after having been out on a test drive with the manager was happy the the brakes would be effective and abs esp works ok, but i would be back the next day as its not right, which he agreed no problems.

My brain is still thinking you should be stopping now when i press the pedal to where the "biting" point used to be ( I know its not a clutch but you know what i mean ) now it seem like double the distance before this point.

Rolled over seal on the cylinder during manual bleeding - i'll ask the question, thanks.

 

[traumapat]

when i got the local garage to upgrade mine to brembos i had a soft pedal. wasnt happy but they reassured me. (apparently an ex vw tech works there).

car was rebled at jabbasport and its 100% firmer/better.

master cylinder had air in it

 

[ibizacupra]

In my experience with brakes, even after a brake fluid change and propper bleeding you will still experience a soft pedal.

you seem to have experienced air in your system then.

if bled properly, then firm pedal is very possible unless something has gone seal wise. (which would result in sinking pedal not just soft pedal.

manual method can kill the master cylinder seals.. happened to me on my mk4 golf. nightmare!
pressure bleed or suction bleed only.

 

[D3DNA]

Noted Bill, in my last post it was only slight softer than usual, and after a few hours driving it went back to being slightly harder than before servicing.

 

[iannez]

how do you get air in the system with a fluid change. the new fluid pushes the old out and the only way air can get in is if some loon doesnt top the fluid up while bleeding. pump the pedal with engine running untill its hard, hold and see if it sinks. if it does its a seal. if it doesnt do the same again without the engine running to check the servo. if it holds thats ok aswell and it is most probs down to the loon i spoke of earlier

 

[DPJ]

I recently had mine serviced and got them to change the brake fluid. Soft pedal afterwards. I complained, turned out their pressure bleeding gear was faulty. They got it repaired and redid my car. Firm pedal restored.