ICE-only mode without E-MODE kicking-in

[mrtndbs]

Hi all, on my Seat Leon FR 2021 1.4 PHEV, there is no option to disable the E-MODE (electric engine only) kicking-in once the ICE temps are above around 80 degrees (until that point, I have a small crossed-out E symbol on the dash, suggesting E-MODE is not ready). The ICE cuts off whenever lifting off throttle, which can get quite annoying during a highway journey with heavier traffic. This happens regardless of the engine mode selected - ECO, NORMAL or SPORT. In addition, selecting the full-recharge battery mode (dragging the battery charge % all the way to 100) also does not prevent the ICE cut / E-MODE kick-in during throttle lift-off.

While I understand this ICE / E-MODE interchange is by design - as the whole idea of a hybrid vehicle is to save fuel and alternate between most suitable powertrain methods depending on the road type and situation, I often find myself wishing I could be in charge of what the vehicle should do. Constant ICE cutting and restarting will only lead to excessive wear and tear over time. As a driver, I can better predict the situation on a busy highway, hence I would prefer the ICE running even during the phases of short throttle lift-offs.

In reality, I'd much rather prefer to only have 2 modes: E-MODE (as exists: ideal for city driving or highway speeds up to 140km/h) and ICE-MODE (ICE only: no cutting, perhaps with a sub-option to select battery recharge from ICE or no battery recharge from ICE, only from braking).

Does anyone know of a way to prevent the E-MODE from kicking in during ICE use? I'm thinking this could be achieved by tricking the computer to think temperatures aren't ready, such as to mimic the situation with a cold ICE (crossed-out E symbol on dash). Essentially, what I'm looking for is a way to disable the start-stop PHEV alternative, while of course a standard start-stop option is not available for hybrid models under the smart assistants menu.

 

[Davehaslanded]

Constant ICE cutting and restarting will only lead to excessive wear and tear over time

This has been disproven many times, ever since the introduction of Stop/Start, which has been in vehicles over a decade now, and hasn't led to an increased failure of engines. Stop/Start function, including the hybrid in a PHEV does not use a traditional starter motor. It reverses the power flow to the alternator to kick start the engine, a part that is already spinning.

In reality, I'd much rather prefer to only have 2 modes: E-MODE (as exists: ideal for city driving or highway speeds up to 140km/h) and ICE-MODE (ICE only: no cutting, perhaps with a sub-option to select battery recharge from ICE or no battery recharge from ICE, only from braking).

I don't understand the benefit here. You can already set a minimum rate of charge, making sure you have enough battery for urban driving. once the car reaches the desired charge amount, it uses the hybrid mode to do what its designed to do, provide a hybrid driving experience that uses less fuel.

It feels like you either have a misunderstanding of how the technology works or you didn't actually want a Hybrid.

 

[Davehaslanded]

Here's something i found online that explains why what youre asking for is not only unnecassary, but possbly detrimental to the car:

When it comes to hybrid vehicles like the Seat Leon PHEV, disabling or bypassing the E-MODE function isn't typically necessary because the system is engineered to balance efficiency, performance, and emissions. Here are a few reasons why this design is actually beneficial and not harmful in the long term:

1. Fuel Efficiency & Emission Reduction: The primary function of the hybrid system is to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, especially in stop-and-go traffic or when cruising at steady speeds. E-MODE automatically takes over because it can power the car more efficiently in certain conditions, and leaving the system as designed helps you maximize these fuel savings.
2. Engine Longevity: Modern hybrids are designed to handle frequent start-stop cycles without the excessive wear that you might expect. The engine components, such as the starter and battery, are built to handle this switching between electric and internal combustion seamlessly. In fact, constant ICE operation could lead to more wear in some scenarios due to unnecessary fuel combustion and engine heat, which these systems are designed to avoid.
3. Predictive Driving Logic: Hybrid systems like in your Seat Leon use sophisticated algorithms to choose the optimal power source based on speed, throttle input, and driving conditions. While you might feel that you could manually override it in certain situations, the system is actually designed to react quicker than a human could in most cases, ensuring optimal fuel efficiency and emissions control.
4. No Significant Wear from Start-Stop: While it might seem that frequent starting and stopping of the internal combustion engine (ICE) could cause wear and tear, modern engines and hybrids are designed with this in mind. Components such as enhanced starters, more durable batteries, and better-engineered engine internals handle these cycles efficiently.
5. Battery Recharge is Integrated: Hybrids also recharge the battery during braking or deceleration, and the system works to keep the battery at an optimal charge level. Trying to force the engine to stay on would interfere with this intelligent battery management system.

Instead of disabling E-MODE or forcing the ICE to stay on, it may be helpful to explore the vehicle's different driving modes. Perhaps there are options within the existing system that more closely align with your driving style, while still keeping the benefits of the hybrid system intact.

Ultimately, the hybrid system is designed to optimize both fuel efficiency and longevity of the powertrain components, and overriding these features could lead to unintended consequences or even reduced efficiency.

 

[BoomerBoom]

With the mild hybrid and DSG the engine now disconnects and switches off much more often, where I live it's all hills so spends a lot of time coasting - which is great with a new engine, but I'm thinking this is going to make it difficult owning even a vanilla ICE car in it's old age.

 

[mrtndbs]

This has been disproven many times, ever since the introduction of Stop/Start, which has been in vehicles over a decade now, and hasn't led to an increased failure of engines. Stop/Start function, including the hybrid in a PHEV does not use a traditional starter motor. It reverses the power flow to the alternator to kick start the engine, a part that is already spinning.


I don't understand the benefit here. You can already set a minimum rate of charge, making sure you have enough battery for urban driving. once the car reaches the desired charge amount, it uses the hybrid mode to do what its designed to do, provide a hybrid driving experience that uses less fuel.

As for the increased wear & tear of the engine, we can only speculate the real impact on an ICE. Also, I don't think it's just about the starter motor, consider the fact that those internal parts keep on switching between operation and rest.

Moreover, even if there is no excessive w&t, I find it slightly strange how a small lift off throttle cuts the ICE. It simply leads to multiple stops and starts along a busy motorway. I am no expert here but I highly doubt switching ICE off and back on several times in a short timeframe, say a couple minutes, saves much fuel - hence bringing the benefit of a hybrid system. Oddly, the solution to this would be fairly simple - let the driver choose an ICE-only mode or, option 2, rely on the front distance sensor to judge distance / approaching a vehicle in front, over a certain speed (motorway speed).

From my understanding, the main benefit of a hybrid system is E-MODE city driving (which I absolutely love, one of the reasons why I did indeed go for a hybrid model) while also keeping the benefit of no range anxiety during the longer trips. Not to mention the other perks and benefits of a solid petrol engine.

It feels like you either have a misunderstanding of how the technology works or you didn't actually want a Hybrid.

Albeit I disagree with both statements, I am always willing to be educated

 

[mrtndbs]

Here's something i found online that explains why what youre asking for is not only unnecassary, but possbly detrimental to the car:

That looks awfully like a ChatGPT-generated answer, which in itself isn't a problem. I do wonder however what the input question was or whether it was lead to advocate why "disabling or bypassing the E-MODE function isn't typically necessary in hybrid vehicles like the Seat Leon PHEV"...

 

[mrtndbs]

With the mild hybrid and DSG the engine now disconnects and switches off much more often, where I live it's all hills so spends a lot of time coasting - which is great with a new engine, but I'm thinking this is going to make it difficult owning even a vanilla ICE car in it's old age.

Yeah I agree I feel like why not just give the driver an option, which does not need to be used indeed], but it should be there for those that do want to take control.

 

[BoomerBoom]

I think it's because they they can't rely on the fuel consumption and hence the official figures suffer, same reason we have to breath recycled air and fresh air is only by temporary override.

Incidentally the fuel saving from even the mild hybrid is huge, compared to the exact same engine in my last Leon, so the system reducing the ICE run time even by small fractions does add up and the tiny extra weight of battery worth it.

Having owned all the options I think having two totally separate cars is more economic overall; a small battery pure EV for city and commuting, with a pure ICE (perhaps hired or car club) for regular distance driving. The PHEV is too much of a compromise, the weight of what you aren't using ruins the efficiency of what you are - plus the complexity of two separate systems.