Heel and toe in new Cupra?

[Fast_Eddie]

Is it possible to heel and toe smoothly in the new Cupra.
It was possible in the LCR, but I just wondered if the new ECU had jumped on the VAG bandwaggon of 'as soon as the brake pedal ( brake lights come on ) is pressed, all power is cut to the engine?

 

[cordobabrendy]

my dbw cupra cant do it (not that it makes any difference on the road as you shouldnt be going fast enough to need it, its not like youre pace setting), i didnt think it was possible on the lcr either.

 

[honeyman]

It isn't possible on the LCR as brendy says DBW

 

[Fast_Eddie]

its nothing to do with speed my friend. Its all about old school matching of revs between gearshifts(at any speed!) It was possible on the LCR. I heel and toe between every single downshift (its a habit that ive had from day one of driving-22 years now) regardless of speed/car/conditions. It always helps any car feel smooth, as there is absolutely no jerk/snatch between downshifts.
All I was wondering was whether the latest incarnation of VAG's ECU allowed you to do it.

As an aside, next time you go to a motorsport event (whatever it may be) look and listen to the different styles of driving. The people not heel and toeing, will be leaving little black marks on the track(esp rear wheel drive cars) as their transmissions struggle to cope with the different rotating speeds between engine and gearbox, and or axle as the driver changes down a gear.....They will also be the ones heading for a gearbox rebuild sooner!

 

[Monumental]

Hmm, my understanding of the DBW VAG throttles was that it did allow a brief period of power with the brake also applied before cutting the power for safety reasons, and that therefore H&T was possible. I don't have personal experience of this, so could be wrong.

H&T is a perfectly valid technique for road driving, especially in a car that thrives on high revs. I find that it makes for a much smoother drive at 'fast road' speeds.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

As I said above, its now a conditioned reflex of mine in any car, thats why I wondered if it was possible on the new Cupra(which is growing on me by the way)?

 

[Monumental]

Yeah, you beat me to it with a much better explanation of why H&T is a good thing!

 

[DPJ]

Sorry, you can't apply the brake pedal and accelerator at the same time on an LCR (or dbw LC) without the ECU cutting the power.

 

[MarkE]

Difference between heel & toe and left-foot braking - the former works as you're only prodding the throttle.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

You can heel tow the MK5 Golf GTI so I would assume you can do it on the Cupra/FR, like the MK1 Cupra/Cupra R you have about 2 seconds touching both the accelerator and brake pedal before the ECU cuts the throttle so a blip between gear changes is possible however left foot braking is not possible.

 

[andycupra]

you can just about head and toe in the LCR, but cant left foot brake.

 

[cordobabrendy]

You must either drive barefoot or have pixie feet, in my leon its just not possible.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

You must either drive barefoot or have pixie feet, in my leon its just not possible.

as posted above-there is a difference between driving along with your foot hard on the gas and then gently bringing on the brake light with your left foot and heel and toeing.
The former has the effect of killing the fuel/ignition(Ill stand corrected on this as I am unsure exactly what happens) like a brick and causing a 1 or 2 second pause in the power.
The latter is achievable in the LCR with deft use of your foot( side of the foot in my case/or actual heel as some people use) if you are quick and precise in your actions.

My question still stands--although dangerous D has more or less cleared it up..
Is it possible to heel and toe on the new Cupra??...anyone??

 

[Triple D]

I used to beable to blip the throttle on my ibiza tdi (asz) by heel and tow, but try left foot braking and it would just cut the power in a big :gay: heap of poo

 

[rrpalma]

Please pardon my tremendous ignorance, but could anybody (perhaps Fast_Eddie?) provide an explanation on how do you do the heel & toe thing, and what are the specific benefits? It is not the firts time I hear about this technique, and have always been curious about it.

Thanks.

 

[chippenhamwilts]

personally, sounds like its going to increase wear and tear on engine, clutch and gears, and also severely increase risk of a serious accident. Playing with the throttle flying into a bend on the road......and when you hit someone when you slip of the brake practicing, your going to look a complete Door handle/ male chicken/ backside and even worse you could kill someone.

My opinion

 

[UncleFester]

Why? It's about matching engine speeds between gear shifts, in theory the gearbox and clutch take less abuse in this way. A smoother drive is nicer for all concerned and is kinder to the car too. I always blip the throttle when i'm downshifting, once you get it right it becomes second nature. If you're on a run of fast corners, the less you unsettle the car on entry the smoother it will be around the corner, it also means you're on the power in the right gear coming out of the corner. I suspect anyone with larger than size 9 feet would struggle in a Mk1 Leon though.

Left foot braking is only for the skilled, last time i tried that I almost headbutted the steering wheel

 

[m0rk]

it's weird, because of my size 13's I've never been able to 'swing' my foot about to get the required angle to heel & toe - but on my non dbw car's I've never had a problem LFB - in fact I 'need' to on the vario because of the hard compound pads

You can easily get around the LFB 'problem' either with software, or just disconnecting the switch (but your ECP light will come on & your cruise control won't work)

 

[Fast_Eddie]

Uncle fester spells it out very well.
On top of that, heel and toeing can be combined with double de clutching to make a down gear change 100% unnoticeable.
Try it!

1-Press down clutch in anticipation of a downshift.
2-Move gear from(say) 4th to 3rd
3-Now the tricky bit-Before actually going to third-let the gear lever sit in the neutral postion for a milisecond.
4-With the gear lever in the neutral postion lift up the clutch
5-Now match the current revs of the engine with the intended revs of the next gear.
6-Push the clutch back down and now select 3rd.
7-If you are a little bit frisky with your feet you may also want to add another little blip of revs just before you engage the last clutch motion
8-Perfect down shift!!-Not one hint of a snatch or a jerk or anythiing. If your passenger had their fingers in their ears it would be impossible to detect the downshift. When you get it right(the above looks longwinded but takes a fraction longer than a normal change with practice) a little smile pops on your face as you just know that it was perfect.
The hardest bit is getting stage 5 right, as too many revs makes the car engine flair and too little revs makes the whole process irrelevant as the engine snatches like a normal change.
As for the suggestion that it is dangerous whilst flying into a bend-Firstly on the road if you don't feel comfortable doing something then don't try it. All my braking is absolutely done before flying into a corner (and gear changes as I am braking and changing gear at the same time).
Try it on a straight quiet road with no one behind you first and then as you become more proficient try it properly whilst changing down.
Some people will never be able to heel and toe for reason like MORK suggested-large feet or not enough flex in their ankles for example.
Have a look on youtube at some of the in car footage of the japanese drift corollas or nissan 200's. There are some good examples of how to get it right.
By the way my feet are size 10's and I just use the side of my foot-not the heel. Some people actually swing their whole foot over(pivoting at the toe) whereas I am lucky enough that my foot flexes in such a way that I can use the side of it!
Hope this helps.

 

[BIGAR]

Yes it is possible but it a little harder to get the rev's right but with a bit of practaice alls good.