Engine Braking the TDI.......

[Wheely]

I have recently been using a lot more engine braking rather than using that middle pedal, and being a diesel it can kick off some speed pretty quickly....... nice when approaching speed cameras (not on public roads, but in pit-lanes !!), and slowing down in advance of red lights etc etc

Just wondering if this will have any adverse effect on engine wear, turbo, whatever ??

Realistic example will be dropping down a gear or so, taking revs up from idle (at gear change) to around 3K then letting engine slow the car. Repeat for next gear............

Sure a lot of ppl think my brake lights must have failed, that bitz good fun !

Bad or not bad (for engine, not the safety aspect).

cheers

MARK

 

[Arctic]

If your doing it constantly i would imagine bad, now and again would be ok

 

[TornadoRed]

You might get more oil coming past the turbo seal. But I don't think that will necessarily harm the turbo.

 

[dmjw01]

I fail to see why on earth you'd want to use the engine instead of the brakes. It's difficult to anticipate what mechanical problems it might cause to the engine - so why do it? If it does cause problems, either to the engine or the clutch, you can guarantee the parts are going to be more expensive to replace than a set of brake pads.

You might also change your mind about doing it after somebody's driven into the back of you.

 

[EdButler]

The Brakes are made for braking so why not use them - Engine braking causes a huge stress on the Clutch and Gearbox (many £££) whereas disks and pads are much much cheaper.

By all means keep revs high going down a steep incline, but ramming in a lower gear to slow down is a BIG nono...

Besides engine braking barely works in diesels as theres no throttle... My 1.2 did more decelleration than my 1.9TDi (yes i can prove this too). All it is, is mechanical drag from the gearbox and heavy iron lump. Suddenly spinning a massive engine and box to a few thousand rpm in a split second is a heavy mechanical strain - i really wouldnt bother. Spend £20 more in the cars lifetime on some brakes.

If you wanna do this to lamp it round a bend, id make sure you heel and toe it. You dont want any sudden decelleration while your prepping for a corner.

And as David said - no breaklights! This IS a BIG safety aspect Could be of some use when youve gone a few MPH too fast past a copper and want to 'discretely' slow down. I havent done that before, honest Guv'nor!

 

[dmjw01]

Besides engine braking barely works in diesels as theres no throttle

Indeed - that's one of the things that surprised me most when I first drove this car. I assumed the huge compression ratio would give good engine braking, but as you say the lack of a throttle seems to cancel that out.

 

[sssstew]

i use engine braking each day, when coming up to roundabouts etc, it sounds like your using a little more than me, but a general change down and a coast up to a junction is not a bad thing. The turbo wont be operating anyway because that load based and with no throttle pressed it wont be on boost so dont worry about that.

 

[chopper]

Engine breaking whats the fuss?

As you generate far more torque by burning diesel than you will by burning nothing under gear braking what is the problem? The clutch is also not a problemfor the same reasons. Think about it if you accelerated slower than you could gear brake we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[TornadoRed]

As long as you're shifting smoothly, there shouldn't be any additional wear and tear on the drivetrain components. That means "blipping" the accelerator just before you let out the clutch, matching engine speed so there's no jerking. It takes practice and it takes paying more attention to the road and your engine than most casual drivers do.

Of course, if you're reading this thread, you're probably not a casual driver.

 

[MAdMAtt84]

I use the engine to brake alot, if your comming up to a junction you dont go flying upto it then stand on the brakes, nor do you hold the brakes all teh way to the junction mine fade out so fast it seems ilogical to me. Shifting to 4th or blipping and shifting to 3rd (ive been tought how to heal-and-toe - tho a harder with the diesel throttle response) smooth changes and you should be fine.

As said, above and to be honest how can engine braking effect teh clutch its a smooth operation if you shift properly unlike some ppls dodgy acceleration and gear changes ive witness's (general drivers)

Just my 2p

Matt

 

[dmjw01]

As long as you're shifting smoothly, there shouldn't be any additional wear and tear on the drivetrain components.

Agreed. But 99% of people don't do that, which is a shame. So the majority of people who follow the suggestion will increase clutch wear and impose some extra stress through the drivetrain. And if you do blip the throttle to match the revs, you'll get even less braking effect. Making a special downshift for engine braking is IMHO an unnecessary complication that isn't particularly effective anyway.

 

[SJFISHER67]

I have used the engine to brake, not all the time but quite often. Done it since been driving and I know that my father has done it since the year dot. No faults to report ever. Depends on how fast you are going when you change down I suppose.

 

[red-27]

i can't under stand why some of you think engine braking is a bad thing take a truck with all the ton to stop if you used just brakes your be lucky if you got a week of of them
thats why they have a exhaust brake to help save on the brakes them self
as long as you don't push the rev's into the red and keep it to about 3000 rpm in a car your be fine

 

[MAdMAtt84]

its when you see folk shifting from 30-40mph and down into 2nd without blipping the throttle in their 106's typically just passed their test age teenagers such as my old friends from school who where really into their formula 1, when you hear the savage crunch as the syncro just cant keep it together as the gear goes in.... you think to your self i really wonder how long this car is going to last.

2k revs and drop a cog to 4k revs with jsut the clutch is similar id imagine to doing race starts and slipping the poor thing like crazy for a second or two.

On a general note tho, every time i let off the throttle in any gear im engine breaking so really teh car is designed to deal with it on a day to day basis you dont drive on gas all teh time and ive been known to drive off throttle for a mile in 4th or 5th engine keeping me at a steady speed, its just change downs and violant changes in revs the box and clutch suffer for.

Sorry for the essay, im just trying to make sure i understand the first comment right.....

Matt

 

[Muttley]

Wheely wrote
I have recently been using a lot more engine braking rather than using that middle pedal, and being a diesel it can kick off some speed pretty quickly....... nice when approaching speed cameras (not on public roads, but in pit-lanes !!), and slowing down in advance of red lights etc etc

Just wondering if this will have any adverse effect on engine wear, turbo, whatever ??

Realistic example will be dropping down a gear or so, taking revs up from idle (at gear change) to around 3K then letting engine slow the car. Repeat for next gear............


If that is what you are doing, it is the equivalent of using the clutch as a brake. Now, think carefully, is it easier to replace a set of brake pads or a clutch friction disc? Take your time

 

[muddyboots]

Could be of some use when youve gone a few MPH too fast past a copper and want to 'discretely' slow down. I havent done that before, honest Guv'nor!

Handbrake is quite useful for the same reason, plus the front of the car doesn't dip down obviously

 

[richard_jerome]

If you wanna do this to lamp it round a bend, id make sure you heel and toe it. You dont want any sudden decelleration while your prepping for a corner.

You can't heel and toe, because the ECU cuts the fuel when braking. IIRC this isn't just in the TDIs - i don't think i could in the Octy I vRS i tried. Must be a silly VAG thing ;-)

/Rich

 

[dmjw01]

i can't under stand why some of you think engine braking is a bad thing take a truck with all the ton to stop if you used just brakes your be lucky if you got a week of of them

I can't see many similarities between a 40-ton truck and a small hatchback.

Changing down a gear to high revs without blipping the throttle will shorten the life of your clutch, and put transient stresses through the whole drive train. It's difficult to know whether or not that'll do any long term harm, so I'll continue to use the brakes. If you do blip the throttle, you get naff-all extra engine braking anyway.

The best use of engine braking is when going down a hill. You should plan ahead so that you're in a slightly lower gear just before going down the hill (using a well-judged throttle blip, of course), then the extra revs will stop the car trying to run away down the slope. You're not using the engine to slow down as such, just to stop the car speeding up. The issue here is control - by ensuring that the car isn't trying to run away from you it allows you to concentrate on more important things.

If you use the engine as a substitute for the brakes when you're approaching a junction or roundabout, this reduces your control. You're forced to take your hand off the wheel, and you upset the balance of the car. Use the brakes - it's what they're designed for.

The technique used by police advanced drivers (who are amongst the best road drivers in the world) is to use the brakes without changing gear, and then select the right gear after they've finished braking.

 

[Harv]

i'm crying here reading this , its really really funny "my dads been engine braking for years" thats a classic , driving techniques have changed and evolved .
Engine breaking does not affect wear and tear on drivetrain , utter utter bullshit it does it strains every single component .
On a circuit the braking is done with THE BRAKES heel and toe is used to match the revs to prevent drivetrain snatch which unsettles the car ,
You can only left foot brake or heel and toe in a throttle by wire car if you disconnect the brakelight switch as it cuts the ecu .

slow down with brakes
acellorate using the engine and gearbox , your not driving a race car race cars get rebuilt often and are used to the extra strain ,.

 

[muddyboots]

The technique used by police advanced drivers (who are amongst the best road drivers in the world) is to use the brakes without changing gear, and then select the right gear after they've finished braking.

"Brakes to slow, gears to go" as my IAM observer taught me

Think about a set of gearwheels. When driving the car forwards, the pressure (and wear) occurs on one side of all the gear teeth as the engine is turning them.
Now think about using engine braking (and I mean deliberate engine braking, not just "lifting off"). The gear wheels are then being "driven" the opposite way, and the pressure/wear will occur on the other side of all the gear teeth.
Over time this will cause extra wear.

Extend this to every gear wheel in the gearbox, the final drive, the inner and outer driveshaft joints....and over time you're going to get a lot more wear.
Not to mention the extra stress on the engine mounts as they first cope with the engine trying to turn one way during acceleration, then the other under engine braking.

When you're trying to drive slowly in traffic, this will manifest itself with a lot more jolting from the drivetrain as you go from accelerating to lifting off - as there is much more slack/freeplay between all the driven gearwheels/joints etc. Whereas a newer car - or one that's always been driven carefully - will
be much smoother.

Much better and cheaper to just use the brakes and replace the pads/discs when necessary.

IMHO of course