dual mass flywheel going?

[seatsam]

Hello everyone,

I have posted in the new members area and i'm fairly new on here. I have a 2002 ibiza tdi pd100 which i had remapped the other day. im really impressed with my map, got it done by a revo dealer in preston. the only thing worrying me is once he had remapped my car he told me my dual mass flywheel was going...and apparently that's the thud i can feel sometimes? can anyone advise me on the best way to drive my car until i can get a new dmf, also is it worth doing a dmf & clutch at the same time? how about an uprated clutch to handle the increased torque? can anyone give me any estimated prices.

Sam.

 

[seatcupramad23]

i say go for a solid mass flywheel conversion with uprated clutch, they're cheaper to buy than dmf and are can handle the increase power and torque more reliably. in regards tio your driving still don't use too much throttle when moving off and avoid booting it from high gears

 

[Guinness]

Most PD100s have a single mass flywheel as standard im sure? So it could just be the release bearing failing, is the clutch really heay and does it judder when pulling away?

Ring seat for an exchange price, I remember when I had mine done it was £195 with a mate fitting it for both plates and the release bearing, I did get the standard seat mass solid flywheel exchange unit and as it was fine didnt need to change it.

Must admit before going to change one I thought the PD100 had a dual mass so it could have just been the SE or something.

 

[seatsam]

Thanks for the replies guys, the clutch isnt too heave and it drives really smooth, just sometimes when i ease off after accelerating or sometimes changing from 2nd to 3rd there is a little judder or bang...dont really know how to describe it. im not too technical myself, all i know is the guy who remapped my car said the dmf was on its way out, if you guys say it has single mass then it probably has, I will be upgrading and having stage 2 in the near future, can you advise the best clutch kit or / and flywheel

 

[seatsam]

also does anyone know if the pd160 airbox upgrade will work well on the pd100 engine? i have also heard you can upgrade the turbo down pipe, but i don't seem to be able to find much information on this?

 

[Guinness]

To be fair the PD100 isnt the best engine to start with, this is without sounding funny but all gains are going to be hampered by the fact you have weaker running gear. However if you are only going stage 2 on standard running gear then you would only be likely fitting the following:

FMIC
Miltek Full System
Green Cotton Air filter with PD160 intake.
and finally the remap.

Sounds simple? But why do this to a PD100 for 160bhp? when a PD130 will give you 180bhp on stage 1 with nothing and these mods would be better suited. Unless you start upgrading the injectors, manifold (I think) and turbo, in which case again you could have a PD130 for the price of upgrading and wouldnt be limited by the 5 speed box in the PD100. To me for the cash PD100s have always worked out cheaper and made more sense to go stage 1 only.

Anyway the clutch I think is a Single mass unit (so I believe) so shouldnt be broken and should therefore be a release bearing or similar at fault. The 2 clutch plates in exchange with SEAT and the release bearing will set you back £195 (GSF will want £230 and discount parts £210 non exchange), if the mechanic thought it was a dual mass going it might well be the release bearing, I know I thought the PD100 had a dual mass and bought a flywheel ready to fit, then found it had a single as standard and wasnt needed; the release bearing was at fault. This car only had 30k unknown history and therefore shouldnt have been replaced in that time, (note the clutch went at 80k), so I am lead to believe it was fitted as standard especialy since the replacment flywheel was also a single mass.

Finally the PD100 shouldnt be able to exceed the torque limit of the clutch and therefore should need upgrading to a peformance clutch unless you go serious power, ie with the 130 parts fitted.

 

[seatsam]

Thanks Guiness, very useful information. have considered a pd130 although bought this car on a whim for a very good price. maybe i wont bother with stage 2, after all the car will be a daily driver and my main priority is reliability. sorry to sound like a newb but what is an FMIC?.. also quoting your last paragraph 'Finally the PD100 shouldnt be able to exceed the torque limit of the clutch and therefore should need upgrading to a peformance clutch unless you go serious power, ie with the 130 parts fitted.' ... do you mean the clutch should, or shouldn't need upgrading for stage 1?

thanks again.

 

[Fl@pper]

i say go for a solid mass flywheel conversion with uprated clutch, they're cheaper to buy than dmf

not always - some dmf suppliers have realised this and are starting to do kits that work out cheaper then the conversions now so shop about

 

[Guinness]

Thanks Guiness, very useful information. have considered a pd130 although bought this car on a whim for a very good price. maybe i wont bother with stage 2, after all the car will be a daily driver and my main priority is reliability. sorry to sound like a newb but what is an FMIC?.. also quoting your last paragraph 'Finally the PD100 shouldnt be able to exceed the torque limit of the clutch and therefore should need upgrading to a peformance clutch unless you go serious power, ie with the 130 parts fitted.' ... do you mean the clutch should, or shouldn't need upgrading for stage 1?

thanks again.

Sorry that should read "shouldn't" I will amend. Anyway Im fairly sure if you ring SEAT for a flywheel it will be a solid unit and thefore wont likely need replacing.

 

[Guinness]

not always - some dmf suppliers have realised this and are starting to do kits that work out cheaper then the conversions now so shop about

Flapper I still think that from a maitenance point of view a single mass is better, ie you wont have to worry about it failing for pretty much the remainder of the cars life. Agree?

Also Im sure the PD100 is a solid mass as standard.

 

[Fl@pper]

Flapper I still think that from a maitenance point of view a single mass is better, ie you wont have to worry about it failing for pretty much the remainder of the cars life. Agree?

I totally agree maintenance wise too in the right car/situation

worryingly though seeing some of the larger cars with 6speed boxes suffering main/input shaft failures more commonly has given me a more decisional look on what to fit and when

 

[mexicorich]

There were some alltime brilliant cars produced before 2000 when no one had ever heard of DMFs. Flywheels were never mentioned unless it was to lighten them when rebuilding an engine.
No one ever complained about there flywheel because there was nothing to complain about....
No one ever complained that there clutches were too difficult to change gear smoothly with either...

Now everyone knows of DMFs and for all the wrong reasons!

Nice idea by the clutch manufacturers to increase their revenue in what was a muture and saturated market place but at an awful cost to end users, typically of second hand cars then being faced with bills for many hundreds of pounds.

I first ran VW Audis over twenty years ago typically buying cars that were already ten years old at that time. They had a fantastic reputation.

In contrast DMFs are typically failing anywhere between 50k to 100k miles. To be faced with a garage bill potentially exceeding £500k to replace clutch/flywheel on a 50k mile Audi VW is trully disappointing and disgraceful relative to the reputation VW once had and something that would only have been expected from unreliable Italian or French products years ago, not something fundamentally of German engineering origin.

 

[mexicorich]

Local independent VW Audi specialist has been routinely replacing DMFs for solid flywheels on all the taxis in the area for some time now. A huge market place of users who now won't have anything else fitted

 

[Fl@pper]

pretty much a side effect of trying to make diesel both more powerful and more retail friendly