Driver Power survey 2006

[Ol' Timer]

It's that time of the year again to be depressed by or have a good laugh at the Auto Express Driver Power survey 2006. The results are pretty much as expected and in line with previous years: Fabia 5th out of 100, Polo 76th and Ibiza 81st.

The positions in each category are as follows (in the order Fabia, Polo, Ibiza):
Performance: 20, 79, 62
Ride quality: 23, 71, 95
Handling: 36, 71, 58
Braking: 47, 83, 82
Practicality: 28, 59, 83
Comfort: 32, 83, 86
Ease of driving: 12, 77, 57
Build quality: 20, 55, 70
Reliability: 20, 74, 53
Running costs: 6, 37, 24

You would never think identical components could perform so differently would you? Aren't statistics wonderful.

 

[j.a.kelly]

winds me up this...

its clear that ppl who buy skoda jus worship them

JK

 

[Ol' Timer]

The trouble is, going by those results, people who buy Ibizas hate them. My honest response to the questionnaire was nothing like those figures but I assume I'm not typical.

The real problem with surveys like that is that, correct or not, they become accepted as gospel and are reflected in future residual values.

 

[j.a.kelly]

yep,

i wish ppl wouldnt answer badly ;-) in the case of Skoda ppl are happy coz i feel that they are justifying WHY they bought a Skoda and are playing an active part in increasing the brands 'quality' and status.

nothing against the brand at all...i do think its good...but it aint the best VAG brand either!!

JK

(ol'timer looks like we could have our own 'winge club' on this haha)

 

[Ol' Timer]

Some of the results simply don't make sense, bearing in mind that so many of the components are shared. For example they share the same engines but the Fabia is 20th for performance while the Ibiza is 62nd. It's the same with the braking scores from identical brakes: Fabia 47th, Ibiza 82nd.

It's crazy. Grrrr!

 

[j.a.kelly]

i know. its definately down to brand perception, therefore the whole study is flawed

JK

 

[Diablo559]

i would say the ibiza is the best buy look at the polo gti 150 bhp as far as i remember the price isnt far off the 180 bhp ibiza cupra to me it all doesnt add up .if i get round to it i will look up the prices to compare if i am right the skoda fabia rs is the top of the range

 

[T. Spark]

Some of the results simply don't make sense, bearing in mind that so many of the components are shared. For example they share the same engines but the Fabia is 20th for performance while the Ibiza is 62nd. It's the same with the braking scores from identical brakes: Fabia 47th, Ibiza 82nd.

It's crazy. Grrrr!

Performance is all wrong, same engines in all models, yet the Ibiza has the most powerful Diesel & Petrol in each!

As said with brakes, but again The Cupra varient has better brakes?

I can understand ride, as the Ibiza is stiff, but Id like to think that then helps with handling, but this survey says otherwise!

Can I join in, with the moaning!

 

[j.a.kelly]

ur welcome to join the moan bud! lol

i think the ibiza does handle better due to the stifness too, but yep it sure affects the ride, but then it 'frrls' sportier i think.

jus winds me up wen ppl say 'u shud av got the vRS' - im like why? im not being a badge snob, but when ppl ask wat u drive - and say Skoda its pretty much a conversation stopper - unless you then go on and say its the vRS! As i say, theres nothing wrong with the brand or the cars.

Jus wish the press would stop slating one brand and praising another wen all the cars are essentially the same! lol look @ us all!!

JK

 

[Ol' Timer]

It sounds as if the magazine realizes the results are a bit odd too. Here is their comment on the Ibiza:
"Comparing the Ibiza with its Volkswagen Polo and Skoda Fabia siblings always makes for interesting reading. How is it that three cars that share so much can record such different sets of results? It's a question SEAT's bosses must be asking themseves. The small Spanish hatch turns in a poor set of figures, spearheaded by a spine-shattering hard ride that's rated in 95th place. Performance and handling are equally disappointing, as are build quality, comfort and practicality. And coming in the bottom half of our results for reliability is nothing to write home about, either."

Ultimately it comes down to the answers that Ibiza owners gave in the survey. It seems like we SEAT owners are more willing to give our cars a kicking (figuratively speaking!) than Skoda owners. Did anybody else on this forum take part in the survey? If so how do the results compare to their comments?

I think the survey was a bit badly thought out anyway. In several places I could have truthfully ticked three or four boxes but was only allowed to tick one.

 

[fivepints]

I think it could have something to do with the type of driver. A large proportion of Ibiza owners have a depth of experience when it comes to other cars, I think we are more able to highlight the flaws in our own car and so we rate it lower than perhaps we should. Fabia owners have a car that they really like, Ibiza owners have a car that they really like, but that they know they can make better. Polo owners probably couldn't give a t*ss and buy for the badge on the front.

I'm surprised that nobody involved in this review can ask how the Ibiza does so badly when it was Supermini of the year for 3(?) years running...

Anyway - who cares - I love my Ibiza, and I'm glad that I have enough experience with cars to appreciate it's faults - I'm sure it makes me a better driver...

 

[T. Spark]

Thankies for letting me join the moan club!

Ggggrrrr!

performance and handling are equally disappointing

HOW?! When they are all the same, but the flagship Ibiza is faster than any other model in the group!? Dont get me started!!! lol

Supermini of the year for 3 years running

Exactly, spot on!

As said above tho, as I personally dont care, as intend to keep my beeza for years and years, the residual value will decrease for people who want to sell tho!

TBH, the fabia and polo are both good cars.

Fabia Vs Ibiza = Personally no badge snobber here.. I personally like beating somewhat more powerful, and alot more expensive cars in my little car.. both the "Seat" and "Skoda" brand help me with my smug smile! Only difference being for me, the Ibiza, is the better looking car so worth the extra bucks (£500ish!?)

Polo Vs Ibiza = Again styling for me meant a no on buying this model, nevermind at the time I dont think there was a powerful version out. Costs more, and your paying for a badge which, I dont need, as I like the underdog, redtop, sleeper type car... if I get a GTI Polo, everyone would know its a nippy little hatch back, with the FR... "oh its a Seat trying to be quick..." till they see the smoke from the rear end and I disappear only later to stop and say "Oh its a diesel!"

Carry on the RANTING!!!

 

[j.a.kelly]

Sparkster u completely hit the nail on the head i recon bud!!

the SEAT catches loads of people out - annoyed a chav in his MK4 Golf GTi yesterday, not sure what variant it was - but i slaughted him. (in a cloud of smoke of course)

I think it's got to be down to brand perception as i said before, and of course i think ol'timer said that many of us have cars to compare the Ibiza to, and know its faults - Skoda drivers are happy with whatthey have bought and almost 'worship' the brand.

I must admit that I was looking @ the vRS and really it was down to the styling...the Ibiza looked much better imo so i went with that (plus BigAli_H was selling his on here!) I certainly dont think the vRS is far superior tho!

JK

 

[Ol' Timer]

It makes a change to find people who think, like me, that the Ibiza is a more stylish car than the Fabia. I still don't get the vRS thing. It's just like the standard Fabia – a popular choice in these parts with pensioners and geography teachers – with some flashy bits added and those big bumpers nailed on over the original items – how crummy is that? Yet I keep reading that the vRS is a fantastic looking car. It must be me.

Getting back to the original review, here is my assessment of my Ibiza FR TDi in each category:

PERFORMANCE: Fantastic power for overtaking and real world driving.

RIDE QUALITY: Most of the time it's fine. Gets a bit jiggly on some very bad country lanes but I can put up with that. My missus feels a bit queasy in cars with soft suspension anyway.

HANDLING: Agile and good fun. Understeers a bit due to that heavy diesel engine but I enjoy it more than my Leon Cupra.

BRAKING: Quite good though it does seem a bit variable. I sometimes find that I have to brake harder than I expected to completely stop the car at roundabouts and junctions.

PRACTICALITY: Brilliant. It does everything I need. Nearly as roomy inside as the Leon but easy to slot into small parking spaces.

COMFORT: Great. It suits me and my other half and I can take on a 400 mile journey without any complaints.

EASE OF DRIVING: Don't really know what that means. Gear change and steering are good. Clutch pedal is quite heavy but I don't notice that now.

BUILD QUALITY: Quite good. A few cabin noises when I hit a big bump and a slight creak from the rear suspension bushes due, I think, to all the salt on the roads. Nothing has fallen off so far!

RELIABILITY: Pretty good. Had to have a new ABS control unit and the fuel pump bolts were changed under recall. It hasn't let me down so far – touch wood.

RUNNING COSTS: Excellent. One annual service at £130 and about 45mpg overall.

All in all I am delighted with car and it has surpassed my expectations. I don't know of any affordable car which I would rather have in its place. Sorry to ramble on but that concludes the Ol' Timer Driver Power Survey 2006.

 

[j.a.kelly]

i have pretty much the same views there mate

braking is shocking compared to my previous Bora TDi tho. does scare me sometimes but i have found that u just need to work the pedal a little more?! Going to upgrade to front TT's soon anyway hopefully stop better.

as far as looks - surely the ibiza beats the vRS hands down - Fabia looking a little dated i feel - and 5door only - come on!! not a fan of 5door hatches really. Having swapped my Bora (which incidently was a fantastic car - spot on build quality - everything was amazing) @ first jumping into the SEAT was a shock - but its more exciting than the Bora ever was - and i have no regrets about changing.

JK

 

[HellFire]

I still don't get the vRS thing. It's just like the standard Fabia – a popular choice in these parts with pensioners and geography teachers – with some flashy bits added and those big bumpers nailed on over the original items – how crummy is that? Yet I keep reading that the vRS is a fantastic looking car. It must be me.

The vRS thing is that it's feels more grown up than the Ibiza, has a nicer interior (IMO only) and again IMO styling is more subtle. As we all know both platforms are the same and they share the same parts so the same potential is there for tuning (Comparing against the FR not the PD160 which I must admit is very tempting with it's larger FMIC and turbo and brakes and suspension ). The vRS comes in cheaper and is a lower insurance group.

I think the major difference though is down to expectations. People have a point to prove with the Skoda as if it's the underdog against bigger VW's, the build quality is the same as is the customer service (in some cases better). People also expect less from it so any issues are to be expected and when the car runs well people are impressed. With Seat (IMO) and definately VW they expect more, so if it delivers what it should people don't think anything of it and just say it's a typical VAG. If on the other hand it performs poorly people are upset that their supposed "upper class" hatchback is no more reliable than other mainstream brands.

Like others have also mentioned it rubs off, my entire family including relatives and friends are really impressed by my vRS, they like the underdog factor and the fact thats it's cheap and cheerful.

It might not be the most hard edged in any area but as an overall package it is hard to beat.

Not taking anything away from the Seat, I really like them and i'm very impressed with Cupra, so much so that I am considering one as my next car

Chris.

 

[SpareMan]

Most surveys I have seen (for what they are worth!!) seem to imply build quality for Skoda and SEAT are well above VW and Audi levels these days

 

[Ol' Timer]

The vRS thing is that it's feels more grown up than the Ibiza, has a nicer interior (IMO only) and again IMO styling is more subtle. As we all know both platforms are the same and they share the same parts so the same potential is there for tuning (Comparing against the FR not the PD160 which I must admit is very tempting with it's larger FMIC and turbo and brakes and suspension ). The vRS comes in cheaper and is a lower insurance group.

Can we agree to differ on the styling? I guess that is why VAG supports the different brands – to cater for differing tastes.

As for price and insurance, there is now only about £600 difference between them, not £2000 as somebody has just posted on Briskoda and a guy here has just ordered a new FR TDi for £10,000. When you take the cost of side airbags, airbag deactivation switch – which I believe are extras on the vRS – and climatronic rather than climatic aircon the difference is even less. As for insurance, the FR TDi is group 8 and I believe the vRS is group 9. So you pays your money and takes your choice.

I still dispute the anomalies in performance, braking, handling etc. on two cars which are so similar, in the Driver Power survey.

 

[j.a.kelly]

im with ol'timer on the looks - but each to our own,

and regards price - the Fabia is slowly creeping up to prices of Ibiza and - ive jus noticed its all said above so im gonna shush.

I think the availability of Ibiza's secondhand (TDi sport/fr) makes them a better secondhand buy too

JK

 

[deezal]

Its not just the Autoexpress survey though. What car? , and also Top gear surveys always put Skoda well above Seat and VW,Audi. Different survey same reason though, rose tinted glasses