Cupra tyre confusion (Porsche homologation)

[dty73]

Hi all,

I've got a 2016 Mk3 Leon Cupra. I'm looking for a pair of front tyres. Reading around on here, I've decided to go for the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assy 3s.

The cheapest price I can find for them is on Black Circles for £133 each. However, the chap from Black Circles has just rung me and cancelled my order because the tyres are shown as "N0" (the Porsche homologation code) and... well... I'm not driving a Porsche. My research into this just suggests that the Porsche approval means you can fit them to Porsches - there's nothing special about Porsche rims. The BC man also said there is a non-N0 version, but they don't sell them (talk about limiting your market!)

So I rang the fitters that BC were going to send the tyres to. They confirmed that there's no reason not to fit the N0 tyres, that there is indeed a non-N0 version but that they can't get hold of them, and they wanted £20 more for the N0 version than BC want to charge me.

So now I don't know what to do. Any thoughts? It appears as though CostCo do the N0 tyre for the same price as BC (+ a bit extra for fitting), but now I'm second-guessing the N0 thing.

Also, the load rating (on the N0 ones, at least) is 87. I recently moved house and can't find my owners guide at the moment. The current tyres on the car are 91. Is that OK?

Thanks!

 

[dw911]

Hi all,

I've got a 2016 Mk3 Leon Cupra. I'm looking for a pair of front tyres. Reading around on here, I've decided to go for the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assy 3s.

The cheapest price I can find for them is on Black Circles for £133 each. However, the chap from Black Circles has just rung me and cancelled my order because the tyres are shown as "N0" (the Porsche homologation code) and... well... I'm not driving a Porsche. My research into this just suggests that the Porsche approval means you can fit them to Porsches - there's nothing special about Porsche rims. The BC man also said there is a non-N0 version, but they don't sell them (talk about limiting your market!)

So I rang the fitters that BC were going to send the tyres to. They confirmed that there's no reason not to fit the N0 tyres, that there is indeed a non-N0 version but that they can't get hold of them, and they wanted £20 more for the N0 version than BC want to charge me.

So now I don't know what to do. Any thoughts? It appears as though CostCo do the N0 tyre for the same price as BC (+ a bit extra for fitting), but now I'm second-guessing the N0 thing.

Also, the load rating (on the N0 ones, at least) is 87. I recently moved house and can't find my owners guide at the moment. The current tyres on the car are 91. Is that OK?

Thanks!

In a nut she'll, it basically means the Porsche have tested that particular tyre and it's approved for use on your Porsche, if you have the Porsche warranty, they won't honour it unless you have NO stamped tyres.
The the manufacturers pay Porsche for this testing and to go on the approval list and they get to sell more tyres.
There is a bit more to it than that, and men in beard's and Sandles will bore you for hours on the subject if you ever go to a Porsche free champagne and to totty thing

 

[dty73]

Thanks. So no reason not to fit the N0s? Which is what I got from reading around, and what the tyre fitter says. Just BC don't see it that way. Does make me wonder why there are N0 and non-N0 ones (which are more expensive).

Any thoughts on the load rating?

 

[kazand]

Thanks. So no reason not to fit the N0s? Which is what I got from reading around, and what the tyre fitter says. Just BC don't see it that way. Does make me wonder why there are N0 and non-N0 ones (which are more expensive).

Any thoughts on the load rating?

the load rating is not suitable. You need 91 or greater.

 

[dw911]

Thanks. So no reason not to fit the N0s? Which is what I got from reading around, and what the tyre fitter says. Just BC don't see it that way. Does make me wonder why there are N0 and non-N0 ones (which are more expensive).

Any thoughts on the load rating?

Yes no reason at all not to fit then
As for why they are two types, I'm not totally sure, it's probably more to do with internal politics, likely a stipulation from Porsche for marketing purposes, gives the impression there are special tyres for your Porsche,which in turn makes Porsche owners feel special, plus it gives rise to the myths like NO tyres have a special compound blah blah blah etc etc
That said if you ignore all the crap and myths it can be handy to know that a tyre has been throughly tested, not so much now but on early 911 Porsches ( pre electronic driver aids) you would know tyre x would give you a certain set of handling caracteristics,as they could be vicious especially as the Turbo was either on or off lol,handy for helping keep fat stockbrokers out of ditches
It's not so important now.
As for the load thing, I wouldn't worry, on say a 911 the weight is reversed, but still a heavy car, probably on par with a cupra

 

[dw911]

the load rating is not suitable. You need 91 or greater.

Don't normally disagree with you, often cos your either right or I'm too busy laughing
But in this case.

Load rating:
91 = 1356 lbs/615kg
89 = 1279 lbs/580kg
77 lbs/tire x 4 = 308 lbs less carrying capacity

If your driving a st cupra, towing the maximum permitted caravan weight (I know no tow bar on cupra)
And you regularly fully load the boot, have a full tank of gas and carry a full compliment of passengers, with a fondness for pies, and a large dog ( carrying, not for eating), you might just exceed the load capacity of an 89 tyre.
Just my opinion of course

 

[CupraRobX]

Unless you've already got the Goodyears, I would seriously suggest the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyre over them.

 

[kiddo]

Is the PS4 out now? I did read the PS4 were superseding the pss's? Sorry for thread hijack

 

[dty73]

I can't find anywhere that stocks PS4s. I was a bit concerned about the load rating (not practically, but from a possible insurance standpoint), so I ended up buying Continental Sport Contact 5Ps instead. Should be fitted on Wednesday. I guarantee they'll provide better grip that what's on there right now - 1 x OEM Pirelli P Zero, and 1 x space saver spare!

 

[kazand]

Don't normally disagree with you, often cos your either right or I'm too busy laughing
But in this case.

Load rating:
91 = 1356 lbs/615kg
89 = 1279 lbs/580kg
77 lbs/tire x 4 = 308 lbs less carrying capacity

If your driving a st cupra, towing the maximum permitted caravan weight (I know no tow bar on cupra)
And you regularly fully load the boot, have a full tank of gas and carry a full compliment of passengers, with a fondness for pies, and a large dog ( carrying, not for eating), you might just exceed the load capacity of an 89 tyre.
Just my opinion of course

no disputing your figures but, and a big but , legally ( I.e insurance etc) whatever the manufacturer recommends ( and fits ) is the minimum requirement. Cupra's are fitted with 91 load rated rubber and thus need the same as replacement.
The following is from Autoexpress, I did have a quote from the C & U regs but can't find it now - Goodyear spokeswoman told us: “These tyres shouldn’t have been fitted to this car, full stop. Having a lower load index to what the manufacturer recommends can invalidate your insurance.” There are also safety implications, affecting handling and stopping distances, and this could also void the car’s warranty.-
The cost difference should be minimal in any case, would you want to risk it? Same as speed rating. In theory you cannot exceed 70mph in the UK, but would you really fit 70mph rated tyres to a 300 BHP car?
Look at it like this. Susan Boyle. Cameron Diaz. Both have the same , er , attributes, and in a written description would seem to be the same. But..... One you would, and one you wouldn't. I hope.

 

[martin j.]

Not sure if this relevant but, Bridgestone make several versions of the re050 tyre that specifically fit Honda, Porsche, Mercedes, and maybe BMW. I know of a few folk who have tyres fitted their Honda that were meant for one of the other marques, they reported back of having strange handling( maybe dangerous) that was cured by fitting the correct spec rubber, I believe although the tyres looked identical, the compounds are diferent, now this may or may not have a bearing here but I would try contacting customer services at the tyre manufacturer to get clarification before buying something that may be wrong. HTH.

 

[dw911]

Yes I thought that about the legal aspect when I posted, so see where your coming from, as for speed rating your totally correctly and I couldn't agree more, but on the load rating I'm still not with you on that one

if you read the c&u regs it says that the tyre
Must support the maximum given weight of the axle to which it is fitted
In the case of the cupra the maximum axle load weight given in the manufactures handbook does not exceed the maximum carry weigh of a 89 tyre


Tyre Loads and Speed Ratings
25.—(1) This regulation applies—
(a)to a goods vehicle first used before 1st April 1987 in respect of which a plating certificate has been issued;
(b)to a vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1987, which is a goods vehicle, a bus or a trailer; and,
(c)from 1st April 1990 to every vehicle, whenever first used, which is a goods vehicle, a bus or a trailer.
(2) Each axle of a vehicle to which this regulation applies solely by virtue of paragraph 1(a) shall be equipped with tyres which, as respects strength, are designed and maintained adequately to support the maximum axle weight for that axle.
(3) Each axle of a vehicle to which this regulation applies by virtue of paragraph (1)(b) or (c) shall be equipped with tyres which are designed and maintained adequately to support the maximum axle weight for that axle when the vehicle is driven at the speed shown in column 3 in the Table in the item in which the vehicle is described in column 2 (the lowest relevant speed being applicable to a vehicle which is described in more than one item).

 

[stevenc152]

Why dont you just google a reg plate and give them that and get tyres off them lol just ask to collect you will fit at another date.

 

[dw911]

Why dont you just google a reg plate and give them that and get tyres off them lol just ask to collect you will fit at another date.

Or tell them they are for off road use only and your happy to sign a disclaimer to that effect, I did that when I needed to have a tyre fitted just to get me home, but they didn't have the exact same size in stock (was still the same rolling radius)
They just want there arse covered, even if they are wrong or Ill informed ( obviously in my above case they were completely in the right to refuse in the first instance)

 

[GTI-Pirelli]

I know that it has pretty much been covered but...

My MK5 Golf GTI Pirelli Edition was shipped from the factory with Pirelli P-Zero (MO). Mercedes OEM tyres.

I dug into the PS4's recently. They don't do a 235/35 R19 91Y yet.

 

[kazand]

Yes I thought that about the legal aspect when I posted, so see where your coming from, as for speed rating your totally correctly and I couldn't agree more, but on the load rating I'm still not with you on that one

if you read the c&u regs it says that the tyre
Must support the maximum given weight of the axle to which it is fitted
In the case of the cupra the maximum axle load weight given in the manufactures handbook does not exceed the maximum carry weigh of a 89 tyre


Tyre Loads and Speed Ratings
25.—(1) This regulation applies—
(a)to a goods vehicle first used before 1st April 1987 in respect of which a plating certificate has been issued;
(b)to a vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1987, which is a goods vehicle, a bus or a trailer; and,
(c)from 1st April 1990 to every vehicle, whenever first used, which is a goods vehicle, a bus or a trailer.
(2) Each axle of a vehicle to which this regulation applies solely by virtue of paragraph 1(a) shall be equipped with tyres which, as respects strength, are designed and maintained adequately to support the maximum axle weight for that axle.
(3) Each axle of a vehicle to which this regulation applies by virtue of paragraph (1)(b) or (c) shall be equipped with tyres which are designed and maintained adequately to support the maximum axle weight for that axle when the vehicle is driven at the speed shown in column 3 in the Table in the item in which the vehicle is described in column 2 (the lowest relevant speed being applicable to a vehicle which is described in more than one item).

This is the problem. The way I read the info above its for goods vehicles, not cars. The following is from the Tyre association ( yes I realise they might be somewhat biased)
" In this example the “91” is the Load Index and reference to standard industry tables stipulate that the
maximum load for the tyre in this illustration is 615 kg.
The “V” in this example is the tyre’s “Speed Symbol” indicating its maximum speed of 150 mph.
Although in the UK the law only requires that tyres are capable of meeting the national speed limit, do not be
tempted to fit a lower Speed Symbol tyre than originally fitted because it is important to note the “Speed
Symbol” is not only an indicator to the tyre’s maximum speed potential, but also an indicator of how well it
copes under braking, cornering and acceleration. In most European countries the speed symbol of
replacement tyres must by law be equal to or higher than the original fit tyres.
For obvious reasons the tyre’s load capability must as a minimum match the loads imposed by the vehicle,
statically and dynamically. UK law does stipulate replacement tyres must have a Load Index equal to or
higher than the original fit tyre."
Looking Black circles, the current cost for a Pirelli P Zero 235/35 19 91Y is actually cheaper than the 89, ( which does say Porsche fitment)
come replacement time, it'll be 91's going on mine. Its not worth the risk, that's what Seat recommend, that's what'll go on. Happy insurance, happy warranty,happy me. Especially if Diaz is included. No Boyles thank you. And on that note....

 

[niggle]

I see to recall reading somewhere that UK law does stipulate replacement tyres must have a Load Index equal to or higher than the original fit tyre.

 

[dw911]

This is the problem. The way I read the info above its for goods vehicles, not cars. The following is from the Tyre association ( yes I realise they might be somewhat biased)
" In this example the “91” is the Load Index and reference to standard industry tables stipulate that the
maximum load for the tyre in this illustration is 615 kg.
The “V” in this example is the tyre’s “Speed Symbol” indicating its maximum speed of 150 mph.
Although in the UK the law only requires that tyres are capable of meeting the national speed limit, do not be
tempted to fit a lower Speed Symbol tyre than originally fitted because it is important to note the “Speed
Symbol” is not only an indicator to the tyre’s maximum speed potential, but also an indicator of how well it
copes under braking, cornering and acceleration. In most European countries the speed symbol of
replacement tyres must by law be equal to or higher than the original fit tyres.
For obvious reasons the tyre’s load capability must as a minimum match the loads imposed by the vehicle,
statically and dynamically. UK law does stipulate replacement tyres must have a Load Index equal to or
higher than the original fit tyre."
Looking Black circles, the current cost for a Pirelli P Zero 235/35 19 91Y is actually cheaper than the 89, ( which does say Porsche fitment)
come replacement time, it'll be 91's going on mine. Its not worth the risk, that's what Seat recommend, that's what'll go on. Happy insurance, happy warranty,happy me. Especially if Diaz is included. No Boyles thank you. And on that note....

Its not the easiest document to make sense of, don't somehow think it has one of those Crystal marks lol
This is my take on it, sadly i feel it might be slightly different to yours

' A' applies to good vehicles, the rest Is 'vehicles ' and the official definition of a vehicle is clear cut and certainly includes passenger vehicles in that definition.
If it was anything else people could argue many parts of the c&u regs don't apply to then and their cars.

Now assuming I'm correct, if I'm not feel free to stop reading

It's interesting what the tyre association has to say, but it has no official weight behind it, ie it's just the musings of a group of tyre companies and has no teeth for want of a better word. unlike the c&u regs which is a set of statute rules that must be abided by adhered too, that has teeth and tells us what we must do and what we can't do.
The C&U is not open to interpretation, although it is hard to fathom In parts.
Personally I'd say in the case of the op, even if he did find himself in the situation regarding the tyres load index, say a insurance assessor who isn't getting any at home, then a copy of the c&u should put him firmly back in his box, even if he did push the point, it would soon get dropped once it got to the legal department as even the dumbest legal mind is not likely to want to challenge something that meets the legal requirements of the c&u regs.

But the easiest way to deal with situations like this is simply to speak to your insurance company/underwriters , needs to be someone with half a brain, but they normally do have some smart people, spell out what your doing, give them all the info and ask then to confirm in writing that it's ok, that way there is no room for doubt.
Even if you think/know your right, there's no substitute for a signed piece of paper with it on in black and white

I've done it myself, although on this issue I'd have no issues not doing that, but that's just me, but then I have had this issue around tyres before not so long back and I wasn't the only one, I won't bore you with to many details, but suffice to say I've been through this with an insurance company before - that's how I know they will send you an appropriate letter - but just to say whatever a manufacturer or insurance company say initially, when presented with the appropriate facts, ideally statute ones, they soon have a sudden change of stance.
Although in the case of the manufacturer, they can refuse to give you an extension to your warranty -that's their right - but they can't not honor your existing ones, due to you not having the appropriate tyres for their liking.
That very last bit isn't really relevant here, as only certain manufacturers try to enforce certain draconian tyre stipulations

Anyway I feel a beard coming on, so I'm off for a shave, don't want to get stuck with Boyles, hear she has a thing for beard's, although maybe that's just on other women

 

[kazand]

We'll have to agree to disagree although I could stamp my feet and ask for another vote...
What? That's not Susan Boyle? Nicola who? Bah.
Seriously though, I do not disagree with what you say, and I could be wrong ( I have been before, I didn't know ladyboys exist.... Er ... Carry on ) regarding legal ramifications etc . Enjoy your shave.

 

[Seastormer]

Is the PS4 out now? I did read the PS4 were superseding the pss's? Sorry for thread hijack

They are not available till Jan 2017 (AutoExpress) and will be only 19" or 20" to start with. Pilot S Sports which PS4S replaces are a great tyre anyway so buy them if you need tyres now.