Being fobbed off by dealer

[dbb]

Hello, I hope some one will be able to give me some advice.
I've had my lcr 225 (54reg 4500miles) for just over a week now. The day I picked it up I took it to stealth racing to have revo uploaded. The vag-com picked up a couple of faults (16395Camshaft timing retard setpoint not reached over advanced and a 17705 pressure drop check DV message).
I didn't have the revo done and went straight back to the dealers. I also noticed under hard acceleration between 4-6000rpm the car stutters. This is very intermittant and seems a bit worse when the car is cold (temp on 90 but within the first few miles).
The dealer hooked the car up to his computer and found the same faults plus 17545 Bank1Mixture adaption system too rich.
I get a call from the dealer saying it's all fixed. They say they found a loose hose on the turbo and tightened it. They've cleared the faults from the memory but he gives me a copy of the printout. I express my sceptisism as to how a hose can leak intermittantly but i take the car anyway.
Sure enough as soon as i get to the dual carriageway and put my boot down I experience the stuttering acceleration again. I become quite cross turn around and go straight back, throw my keys at him and tell him to fix it or I'll be wanting my money back. Clearly I don't want my money back I just want it fixed. I'm anxious not be treated like a mug again. Can anyone shed some light on these faults? Knowledge is power they say. This is a SEAT main dealer by the way.
Thanks for bothering to read all this!

 

[bigjode]

If you're having intermittent problems, as you say its less likely to be a hose and more likely to be a sensor or valve - could be the crappy std DV, could be the N75, could be pre- or post-cat sensors. If its under warranty they will have to keep replacing parts untill its sorted.

But the camshaft thing is a new one to me - I had a cam position fault and it turned out my belt was out by a tooth!

 

[dbb]

Thanks for your reply. I got a call from the dealer this morning saying they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I went back and took the boss of the garage out in the car for a test drive, the car performed flawlessly. Now I cannot replicate the fault so I've taken the car off them and am currently questioning my sanity. I'll see how it goes. Thanks for the advice anyway.

 

[dbb]

Update
Fault has reappeared. 3rd & 4th gear, full throttle between 3&6000 rpm very hesitant acceleration. Took the car back to the dealers the boss took it for a drive with me in it and again no fault although he did feel a slight hesitation a couple of times. Have left car at dealers, told them I wont accept the car back unless they do something.
Surely after such a sudden and unexpected power loss there will be some fault codes for them to go on? I hope so because I'm not sure they really believe there is a problem.

 

[claudefrog]

try getting the MAF replaced...

below taken from another forum

Only bought the damn thing and its already givin jip.
I know theres some VW minded people on here, so here goes....

Oct 2000 Golf Gti 20v turbo

Engine management light came on sat.
Went to autospark sat afternoon. Snap on machine brought up fault code -

17536 - Long term fuel trim, entire speed/load range, bank1- system too lean.

Possible cause- Fuel pressure/pump, injector(s), intake/exhaust leak, air system, hose leak.

Fitted new MAF, car feels sharp,and the eml's stayed out after some 40 or so miles.

Now I know I said I heard hissing when there was no power, but now I can only hear what sounds like the turbo boosting.
Maybe that was all it was before?
The car seems to pull fine now, not hesitant like it was before. Only thing Im concerned about is all this talk about resetting throttle body values etc, will this still need to be done?

rms_clk i see where your coming from mate, and rekon you might be on the right track, problem did feel like low fuel pressure or an air leak. But if you look on sites like vwvortex and uk-mkivs 9 times out of 10 boys are replacing MAF's because of these symptoms.

 

[dbb]

I did suggest the maf to the dealer. But wouldn't I get a light on the dashboard if the maf was failing? I'm not getting any indication other than the symptom itself.

 

[claudefrog]

nope.. when mine was failing it never brought a light on.. just gave me limp mode the odd time.... i got the car onto vagcom with my maf.. logged.. then got a friend known good maf.. logged again and the difference was astounding.

 

[dbb]

O.K thanks. Hopefully the dealers will go for the maf. I'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for your help.

 

[CupraSteve]

maf only brings a light when its really really ****ed

 

[h100vw]

Have you got someone local who could log the MAF output. Good to check the requested and actual boost, as well as timing pull and Lambda values too.

Could be codes 020, 031 and 115 IIRC.

I just had a fault on my mates A4 1.8T. He said somedays it went like a train others just dead average. I logged it and nothing untoward came up and it didn't feel too lively to me. No fault codes.

I took it to have it re-mapped as he couldn't get time off work. After the remap it ran just the same, I felt sick but the MAF was disconnected and it ran far better. From the logs taken at the time you could see the MAF output intermittently dropping to 0 during full boost requests. Obviously not right.

I got another MAF and fitted that. The difference was astounding it went like a rocket.

If it does fail, you need to get the garage to drive it without you turning it off. Limp there and call them from your car with it still running. The fault should remain until you turn it off. Have them drive it or scan it without turning the engine off.

Gavin

 

[dbb]

Update
Picked the car up from the dealers yesterday (they had it for over a week). They've replaced the n249 and the n75 valves also have checked for boost leaks.
Fault is still there, occasional hesitant acceleration 3&4th gear between 3&6000 rpm.
I,ve got myself a lead and downloaded vag-com. As soon as I got home I plugged the car in and I got 17705 Pressure drop between Turbo and Throttle valve check D.V! I cleared the fault took it for a short drive checked again and it's back. I changed the standard d.v to a forge one cleared the fault took it out and again the same fault code, this code appears whether or not I experience the hesitant acceleration.
The original codes from the top of the thread (Camshaft timing and Mixture over rich) have not reappeared so i would assume these were spurious. Unfortunately I don't have a laptop so I can't log any info whilst driving.
I would be grateful for any ideas, is it possible that the fault could still lie with the maf or is it more likely to be a boost leak. When the hesitant accelleration does not occur the car seems to run perfectly.

 

[CupraSteve]

split/leaking hose? lathough a dodgy maf can cause the hesitation, i found that when i tried one of those cheapos mafs off ebay

 

[Georgie]

dbb where abouts you located country wise? maybe someone who is local with vagcom on a lappy can give you a hand.

 

[dbb]

Update

I think I've sussed it. Cleared the 17705 pressure drop fault code, disconnected the maf and went for a quick spin. I presume the ecu went to a default airflow value because the car was incredibly quick, I thought it was fast before, now I realise how it should perform. I plugged the vag com back in after the run, this time the only fault code was associated with the maf as you would expect, but no pressure drop fault code.
To confirm I cleared the maf fault code plugged the maf back in and went out again. Performance went back to how it was and after that run the only fault code was 17705 pressure drop.
Now I've just got to convince(actually tell) the dealer to change the maf.
Seems fairly conclusive or am I being naive?

 

[DDX]

also had the 17705 error last week , and max maf reading was 190g/s
after changing the maf it went back to 213g/s

just ask for a new maf at your dealer...

 

[dbb]

Nice one, thanks for everyones help and advice. Hopefully this thread will help someone else.

 

[dbb]

Update

Just to confirm MAF replaced revo uploaded, goes like stink, very happy!
Big thanks to Vince at Stealth Racing for letting me borrow a good MAF to prove the fault.

 

[claudefrog]

glad to hear you got it sorted