A question about DSG from a new DSG user

[serdar_18fr]

Hi everybody,

This is a non-model specific question, in fact a non-brand specific one but I couldn't find a more proper topic, so I'm here at the "SEAT cars general discussion".

I'm a long, long time dedicated manual gearbox user, I always bought only manual cars for myself (and automatics for my wife).
Even though the traffic is possibly the worst of all Europe where I live (Istanbul), I never complained that using the manual gearbox is tiresome etc. because that was the way I used to drive & enjoy cars and I didn't want that to change and I persevered with manuals

Anyway, lately I thought I need a little more luxury & more comfort and decided to buy an automatic, so I got a Cupra Ateca 1.5 TSI ACT.
It has DQ200-7F transmission and I'm happy with it so far.

After this long intro, here's my question:

We're in D mode, auto-hold is turned on.
When the car comes to a full stop, auto-hold kicks in and keeps the brakes engaged until I start pushing on the throttle.
What I wonder is, in the meantime,
A. Is the transmission physically engaged in 1st gear and is it only held by the brakes?
B. Or is it smarter than that, and when it is stopped and auto-hold is on, physically switches to N underneath (even if it still shows D)
and switches to 1st only when the throttle gets pushed again?

I'm hoping that my second theory is true, because in the first one parts would be prone to wear more quickly.
With that thinking, and without knowing how it really works for sure yet, sometimes I tend to put the transmission to N or P while in a traffic jam but that kills the comfort, obviously.

I'll be waiting for some input from DSG gurus

Cheers,
Serdar

 

[nd-photo.nl]

Hi Serdar, I cannot help you with your specific question, but you might ask some specialists like TVS. The dq200 is unfortunately not the best gearbox (dry clutches). See the link below, try the direct chat functionality to get an answer to your question

DQ200 - TVS Engineering

tvsengineering.com

 

[Legojon]

I'd guess at A. I'm not sure how much wear would be saved by putting it in N at every set of lights. I'd guess they are designed to be left in D for long periods of time. I did however find this (and a very long description of how DSG works):

For those who are uninitiated with respect to the DSG world yet, here is a high-level summary view of the various driving modes:-

• As briefly explained in the WORKS section, the design of the gearbox lever along with the drive shafts and the plates (PLUS the VW philosophy of keeping things unambiguous for the end-customer) enables it to operate in a straight "fore and aft" motion. Therefore, the various modes like P, R, N, D, S are in a linear manner, one below the other - unlike the gated gear box or rotary or joystick patterns seen in other brands. Selection or design of the gearbox patterns is perhaps a conscious decision by different manufacturers, which depends primarily on what they want the customers to feel or what they want the customers to do.
• "P" or Parking mode: In this mode, everything is disengaged - i.e. the gear selector forks, clutch plates. The parking lock pin is engaged purely mechanically via what is known as a Bowden cable between the selector lever and the lock lever on the gearbox. Point to note is that the ignition key can be withdrawn only when the P mode is actuated.
• "R" or Reverse gear: functions like a "normal" gear, just that the output shaft gets driven in the reverse direction
• "N" or neutral gear: in this mode, the gears are disengaged and the gear selector piston is held in that position via the oil pressure controlled by solenoid valves.
• "D" or driving mode: the gearbox won't allow to shift from 'Neutral' to 'Drive' mode unless the brake pedal is pressed. The 'D" mode is where the DSG is meant to show its full array of automatic gear selection and the adaptive nature of the mechatronics unit. As was mentioned in the above WORKS post, the mechatronics sensors will pre-select the next set of gear changes with the assumption that there will be steady and linear acceleration by the driver. Since I am personally in favor of such a driving style and have been doing so for a large portion out of the 60k km covered so far, I can vouch for the view that the DSG has probably adapted to my driving style.
  This is so because I have seen significant consistency in the tachometer and the engine throttle combination to result in a gear change.
  On the contrary, when I apply throttle pressure which is far greater than the resistance offered by the normal operation of the dual clutch plates, then the sensors literally send an immediate instruction to downshift. In layman terms, this is termed as kick-down and will result in an almost instantaneous needle shift on the tacho, indicating that the engine has received the 'order' to pump in more revs and it will do the needful.
  Another point to mention is that of cruise control - when this scenario is selected (irrespective of the car being in 'D' or 'S' mode) - the sensors and the associated conundrum of forks and plates are forced to hold onto the selected gear.
• "S" or Sport mode: the functioning of the gearbox while in this mode is very much like the "D" mode, with the notable difference being the increased engine revs enabling usage of more engine power/braking at the driver's disposal. Needless to say, this will have an adverse effect on the fuel efficiency since the car will definitely guzzle more fuel if operated in this mode for longer duration.
  In my 3+ years of ownership, I have very seldom realized the "technical need" to shift into this mode purely from lets say, an overtaking perspective. The "D" mode is sufficient enough to provide that thrust with some kick-down action.
  In this "S" mode, the engine revs are about 15-20% or even higher as compared to the equivalent 'D' mode gear. What this means is that, if you are driving in let's say 'D7' gear at about 1400 rpm, and if you shift into "S" at that point of time - then the equivalent gear would most probably show 'S6' on the MID but with about 1500-1700 rpm on the tacho. One needs to be aware of the increased revs and need to take that into consideration while undertaking a kick-down action in this mode else there is a potential of traction control loss due to excessive wheel spin while fast acceleration.
  On other note, the 'S' mode is famous for a reason
  
  - on an empty stretch of road with good visibility, nothing comes close to that rushed feeling of being thrown back in the seat when you execute a clean kick-down in this mode!

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tech...need-know-about-vws-direct-shift-gearbox.html

 

[serdar_18fr]

Hi Serdar, I cannot help you with your specific question, but you might ask some specialists like TVS. The dq200 is unfortunately not the best gearbox (dry clutches). See the link below, try the direct chat functionality to get an answer to your question

DQ200 - TVS Engineering

tvsengineering.com

Thank you very much for the link. I'll be contacting them soon. It's also good to know that there are a lot of fine tuning upgrades that can be done, just in case



Sent from my 23113RKC6G using Tapatalk

 

[serdar_18fr]

I'd guess at A. I'm not sure how much wear would be saved by putting it in N at every set of lights. I'd guess they are designed to be left in D for long periods of time. I did however find this (and a very long description of how DSG works):



https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tech...need-know-about-vws-direct-shift-gearbox.html

Thank you very much! I love long descriptions

I took a quick glance and I'm going to read it in full in an appropriate time. I see lots of useful information but I guess there's still one thing missing: What exactly happens when the car comes to a full stop in D, and is it all the same for three different braking scenarios: keeping the pedal pushed, having auto-hold on or setting the electric parking brake on.

Anyway, maybe it's just like you said and there is no harm in waiting in D, in terms of wear. But I'll keep looking & asking about this until I got the definitive answer.

Thanks again.

Sent from my 23113RKC6G using Tapatalk

 

[decker53]

Thank you very much for the link. I'll be contacting them soon. It's also good to know that there are a lot of fine tuning upgrades that can be done, just in case [emoji106

Let us know how you get on with TVS Sent from my