lose of power / hesitation on acceleration. MAF? (leon cupra)

andycupra · Jan 6, 2004

hi all..

currently got along term problem on my late 2000 leon cupra sport.

It has an APR EMCS ecu upgrade. although problem is still evident in 'stock mode' although less severe.

Problem is when i accelerate through the rev range the power gets held back, usually from 2,800 rpm upwards. although is inconsistant when it starts. Also is less sever now the weather is cooler.

i have been to a seat dealer (no longer with us) who as usual said no fault codes, nothing we can do.

REVO took a look at the car for me, (thanks guys for your time on this appreicated). they did a few runs with a laptop and came to conclusion it was the MAF (air mass meter) holding back the ignition.

A pricey bit of kit, but i bit the bullet and got a new one.
Fitted it and found that it had the same problems but to a much more sever effect. The car then failed to start in the morning.

So another new MAF was got, with same results, although this time the engine magagement light came on after a run. The car did seem to run bit more smoothly with the new MAF's up until the power loss. my imagination?

found out at this point that with the MAF disconnected or with management light on the power was consistant throughout the rev range with no 'holding back'. Although maybe its hard to tell as the car runs with less power generally like this so maybe by passing the problem?

if anybody has any idea what it may be or things to try ill be very appreciative.

from a frustrated owner with 3 MAF's...

thanks in advance

andycupra

2000 leon cupra sport.

sssstew · Jan 7, 2004

hmm that does sound odd, cause it certainly sounds like a MAF issue if when you unplug its fine. My maf never logged an error but they dont unless they totally fail, a half failing maf will cause what you are having.

you need to measure a block in vag com, other people know what block this is, something to do with actual airflow over requested air flow or something, sorry to be so indecisive :redface:

block 003 maybe?

could you not take it to the dealer now you have a new maf and an engine managment light?

andycupra · Jan 7, 2004

thanks sssstew!

as you say its weird.

everything seems to point to the MAF, but it doesnt get better when i have changed it.

Any thoughs on this:
two places (one a dealer one a parts specialist) have given me a part number of:
06A906461'D'
however the MAF that was/is on the car is:
06A906461'L'

both places said well that can happen, and you should replace like for like.
(talking to seat they changed to 'L' about 8,000 cars after mine.
maybe i should try the 'D' MAF?
any potential for damage if incorrect?

as for the ecu light. that got reset... although sure i can get it back at any time by putting the relavent MAF back in!

the block thing went right over my head, is that somthing a dealer would do?

thanks

andycupra

sssstew · Jan 7, 2004

you wont cause any damage by having the wrong maf in, so dont worry about that.

I would tend to put the maf in that logs a fault and then once you have the fault take it into the dealer, then they should replace the maf under warranty.

the dealer could do the block checking in vag com but from experience they dont have much knowledge about this stuff, better off getting someone who knows whos got vag com on their laptop to check. www.tdiclub.com forum in the tdifaq is a section i beleive about what block to read.

prc · Jan 7, 2004

Stew is right. I've enclosed pics of some results below. Pic 1 has a completely shot MAF.
RED = requested/expected value
YELLOW = actual MAF reading
BLUE = rpm

This one is a flat liner...

prc · Jan 7, 2004

Here a log with a new MAF. I'm not sure about petrol cars but on diesels you should get over 900mg @ 3K

andycupra · Jan 7, 2004

thanks again.

i didnt think it would, but i wasnt sure.

as for the warranty thats a sore point. Seat basically said there was nothing wrong with the car, (seem to think if there isnt a code fault then there is nothing wrong).
in mean time the original warranty has expired.
no worries i had extended it through dealer.
dealer goes bust.
i contact warranty company.
we have no record of it. (even though i paid for it)
called seat uk
they said "you dont have a warranty with us anymore. where did you get this number?... go away nothing to do with us". despite me explaining that this was an on going problem originally found within warranty.
seems they have no backup to their dealerships!

not a happy bunny.
so you can see why i am having problems.
MAFs are not cheap!

ill stop now, i feel a real moan coming on!

thanks again

andycupra

ZBOYD · Jan 7, 2004

Andy

Im so sorry to hear your still having problems, feel really guilty cause it was my motor

But i know other than the beginnings of a flakey MAF issue the car was mechanically sound when i handed over the keys to MK, it wasn't a concious move to get rid of a failing car or anything, i just wanted an R and the time came and it was right to change, in fact if there hadn't been a Platinum R available i would probably still of had the Cupra now.

I can't believe the hassle your having to put up with, i even got a tax reminder for that car sent to me months after i sold it, informed DVLA of the change as the garage must not of, its a poor show over the warranty to, makes me wonder about my own brand new car, calls to SEAT i think.

Wish i could be more to help to you, im glad REVO could help to advise you anyway, the chaps explained to me a few months back you were having these problems.

Hope something gets resolved for you soon anyway, and you can enjoy the car as i did when it worked properly.

andycupra · Jan 8, 2004

hi,

well dont feel guilty, i think SEAT should.

Just shame dealer when bust as i dont really have anyone to moan at.
The MAF certainly isnt the only problem ive had, i was very close to dumping the car on their forecourt and / or complaining to SEAT direct about the service i got.
Im not sorry to see the dealer go, just would have been nice to get the car sorted first.

I hope i get the problem sorted, as i know it will be a great car, until then i have a great looking car that goes as fast as Rick Waller on a moped.

(or is that like Nell McAndrew on a moped?)

andycupra

sssstew · Jan 8, 2004

andy something else that might be worth checking and is related to power problems on the VAG engines is the N75 boost control valve, if u can borrow one from a friend then try that as well. but for the petrols they are cheap anyway about £30 so might be worth replacing that.

theres loads on here about N75 valves and the different types, obtainable via a search.

just a closing thought.

best of luck :cheers:

ZBOYD · Jan 8, 2004

It has the old APP (pre VVT engine) in it, so it may possibly improve with a different N75 valve, some notice improvements with them others not.

N75's though i believe are not as expensive an item as the MAF.

Still looks great anyway Andy your looking after it

Hopefully somewhere along the way someone can help you get to the bottom of the problem.

:cheers:

Copra · Jan 8, 2004

Sorry to hear about this
Ive had no end of problems with my ibiza cupra since i owned it,and although ive not had a great problem with warrenty, ive had a absolute nightmare with one dealer. again, like you, my car was fine when the previous owner sold it,and like zboyd he seemed to be genuinly guilty when he found out.
Its so depressing isnt it.
The only good thing thats come out of it so far is that ive learned alot about these engines, and i know that the problems ive had souldnt ever come back-thats some less to worry about!

I too was going to sugest n75 valve, it does sound like the symptoms, i would also try that other MAF.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Lovely looking car

Mark

jacknelle · Jan 9, 2004

My sympathies as well. I think I'm experiencing MAF problems as well. The car pulls fine when it is cold, and then, when warm, is very flat above 3k rpm. My fuel consumption has also plummeted - 25mpg @ 50mph this morning, when normally I get 35mpg. I took it into King's SEAT in Portsmouth but because no fault codes came up they weren't interested. It appears to be a no-win situation.

andycupra · Jan 9, 2004

well seems there have been lots of discussions on the N75,so not wanting to startanother one.

but from the reading i haev done maybe i have a combination problem with the MAF and N75!?

As when i had the new MAF in it did seem smoother until the power loss, but the syptoms seems similair to those discussed on pages about N75.

as there is a asignificant spike in boost on my car i am planning to try the N75 'j'.

part number: 034906283J

i will let you guys know what happens, in mean time anyone got any comments or opinions let me know.

thanks again.

andy

Blucupra · Jan 9, 2004

Hello,

I recently had the same with my chipped Ibiza Cupra 20VT. The engined made a very whining moise through the rev range. Also the car didn't pull as hard as before.

The dealer changed the N75 valve and the problem was solved.

Hope this helps,

Jeffrey

andycupra · Jan 18, 2004

update:

fitted new N75 valve. not standard one though, i went for:

part number: 034906283J

results:

firstly i fitted it and ran car with the original - allegedly faulty MAF.
the car ran well and the previous problem seems to have dissapered!

so though hey now ill put new MAF in and it will run even better...

WRONG!

i tried both of the new MAF's that i have, both resulting in the same problems as before. one MAF called up fault only while ticking over!
this is weird, makes me wonder what i will do if MAF i am using totally fails.

Put original MAF back in and it has and still seems to run better than before. it not 100%
I hope it stays that was when the weather gets warmer as the problem seems alot worse when the weather is hot. but for now the car is a great improvement, the issue is not as sever, but still evident.

Anyway in repect of the new N75 valve, i have found that the car now runs with higher boost, (2psi higher).

Also found that quickest way to get about doesnt mean thrashing engine, but changing earlier than usual.

Fitment was easier than i expected, although the new valve has plug for wires pointing downwards in engine bay, not as original. The wires only just reach as a result... possible strain on wires? Anyone else found this?

engine note also seems more deep, possibly as original valve was falty?

thanks to anyone who has contributed to this thread. - especially sssstew who suggested the N75.

andy

andycupra

Copra · Jan 18, 2004

thats good news. Nice one.
Keep us informed of how it goes though, in a couple of weeks or sommat.
Mark

sssstew · Jan 19, 2004

cool mate... glad you got it sorted. you must have been as happy as i was when i went out for my first drive after fitting my new N18/N75 and my turbo was smooth and pulled well, after having the car for a year of bad running!

big grins

dunno why the newer mafs wouldnt work, but they might be useless now as i know that the mafs dont like alot of knocks so all the movement in and out might have done them in.

anyway.. glad you can get out there and enjoy your car... you nearly caught us out with that one

ZBOYD · Jan 19, 2004

Sounds like good news so far anyway Andy, glad your getting some results now, hopefully this will have sorted it out for you.

Cheers for helping you chaps too

andycupra · Jan 19, 2004

Yes i plan to put an update in a little while to say whether its still running ok etc...

I think it would be good to borrow a standard N75 to see if its still ok running that. - if only to see if i have gone 'around' the problem with the different valve.

God i could go on and on...

Seems one lesson is if you are having probs that seems to be MAF, its may be worth gettin hold of a valve to try that first.!? especially if you can borrow one...

So whats the N18 valve sssstew? same thing?

thanks again guys.

have fun.

andycupra

lose of power / hesitation on acceleration. MAF? (leon cupra)

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