FR TFSI on regular unleaded warranty question

uzzy · Jan 3, 2008

I simply can't justify the cost of super anymore... £1.07 PL... and have been running my TFSI on regular supermarket unleaded 95 RON for a few weeks. I don't appear to be seeing any reduction in MPG caused by it, mabe a slight power reduction but nothing that I could put my finger on.

One question I have is if I am not following the manufacturer's warranty guidelines am I invalidating any engine warranty claims caused by not running on 98RON and above?

phil3012 · Jan 3, 2008

I have had many discussions on the 95/98 RON issue on here and the general consensus is that it makes no difference.

SEAT did recommend to me that an FR or Cupra should run on 98 otherwise you may lose performance or MPG, but no issues should be caused by running 95 RON.

Mine actually says 95 RON on the fuel cap and I'm pretty sure the manual doesn't mention anything on it.

I actually asked my salesman and he kept changing his story, but the day before I got the car I asked where the nearest petrol station was as I don't know that area and he said Asda.

I would say your warrenty would be safe, espcially as it says 95 RON on the cap.

I agree with the price of super, I'll probably go back to 95RON next time I fill up.

andycupra · Jan 3, 2008

i dont have a MK2 but the MK1 says 95 is ok to use but may result in a slight loss of performance. does the MK2 handbook say similair? or does it state that 98 ron is the minimum? - I cant believe that would be true, as at the time of development there was probably only one petrol manufacturer that sold 98+ ron in this country... 'not fit for purpose' would come to mind...

I suspect that it recomends 98 ron just so they can provide slightly improved figures, but that it will say somewhere that 95 ron is the mimimum requirement. in which case yes you can use 95 ron

'quidelines' are not the same as 'requirements'...

you can call: 0500 222 222 (then option 4) for seat customer services, who will contact technical services for you!
(i have just called for you but they require a reg number). let us know what they say and make sure you ask what the 'minimum requirements' are rather than what they recommend.

you could even say that no petrol stations ni your area have super and what do they advise you to do...

Al · Jan 3, 2008

My old AUQ 1.8T said 98 on the filler as does my BWJ 2.0TFSi Cupra, so thats what it gets.

I am sure that running the car on 95 RON is fine, but I would not be willing to bet that SEAT would cough up if it all went wrong and it was down to incorrect fuel being used.

Besides, in the real scale of things, how much more is it costing to use Super? 5ppl more, or £2.50 a tank? £2.50 x 52 fills per year = £130. New engine = £5,000.

Being fair, you can put in Sainsburys 97RON for 2ppl more than their 95RON stuff and it has been tested to give a little more RON in various tests.

If you are concerned about cost of fuel, buy a diesel, drive more slowly or drive less

uzzy · Jan 3, 2008

Thanks guys all good advice. I wasn't concerned about the cost of fule until my wife dropped one and went part time and we bought a new house and got her an 57 Ibiza Formula Sport all in 6 months.

You make a good point regarding the cost PA, and as I love my FR maybe I should rethink the move to 95RON.

phil3012 · Jan 3, 2008

If they refused to pay out for an engine repair on mine, I'd point them to the sticker that says 95 RON.

Poverty · Jan 3, 2008

lol you guys can use 95 ron all day long trust me it wont harm your engines. Its really only import japanese cars that require the nannying of 98 and above ron fuel untill you get them remapped to accept 95 ron.

Donnyboy · Jan 3, 2008

I'm sure mine says 95 on the cap.

I also think there would be an outcry if car makers tried to force people to use dearer fuel. Especially at todays prices.

Mine gets V-Power though. As mentioned above, the difference per tanks not really alot.

Al · Jan 3, 2008

Mine is fed V-Power only every time. I refuse to use BP as it is no better than V-Power despite its higher price. Plus Shell points are proving to be quite useful

mattbeef · Jan 3, 2008

I have an AUQ 1.8T and they are the same.
180 bhp on 98 RON fuel. The engine will just slightly drop in power with 95 RON fuel.

Honestly dont worry about having to use 95RON fuel. The only reason i use V Power is because i find it runs smoother and gives me more power

Pummy · Jan 3, 2008

I thought the point was that the FSI engine works better when the higher octane rating fuel is used.

shuikit · Jan 3, 2008

I was told by a salesman (AFTER I bought my FR!) that FSI doesn't make a difference in this country as the fuel that is sold here isn't good enough quality. Apparently in Europe they get better quality fuel and FSI does make the engine run more efficiently. The salesman also said that they're not even allowed to sell FSI and are only allowed to say it has a 2 litre turbo engine...although I didn't believe him!

wurzel · Jan 3, 2008

I had the 2.0 TFSI - sadly I had to trade down, but back to the point. The engine is designed to run on 97 RON fuel or above, only once in 11K did it get filled up with 95 RON - the day I collected it and the dealer filled the tank.

Dealer told me the difference between 95/97 RON is non-existant. I totally disagree with this and I could notice the difference (the 1.8T engine is completely different and it is possible the difference isn't so noticable)

If you read the manual it says something along the lines of designed to run on 97 RON, you can run it on 95 but power loss will be experienced.

on a 50 litre fill up what is the difference? £2.50?! Even if you get through 4 tanks a month is £120 per year really going to make that much difference? Don't forget you are also spending £85 per year more in road tax for the TFSI over the TDI...

Without ensighting an arguement why pay nearly 18K for a 197BHP car and then run it on "cheaper fuel" for the sake of £10 per month when it will not run as smooth nor be as quick?

phil3012 · Jan 4, 2008

Always a bone of contention this one, the 95/98 RON debate.

I actually e-mailed SEAT and the response was they recommend 98 RON (not 97), but 95 RON would work fine, just with a possible slight loss of power or mpg.

The car does however say 95 RON on the fuel cap, so the car is designed to run on 95 RON.

Many comparison tests have been done between the two by various magazines and generally their is little difference if any. I know that Chris a regular poster on here is getting about the same MPG out of his Cupra on 95RON as I am on V-Power/Tesco Super.

I'm going for the so it's only £2.50 a tank extra theory at the moment, but it soon adds up. When you are looking at maybe 300 miles out out of a tank, I can often fill up every few days depending what I'm up to.

Out of interest the Golf brochure for both the GTi and Ed 30 state that they are designed to run on 95 RON with no loss of power or economy. The GTi and the FR are an identical engine aren't they?

I filled up with a certian supermarkets 97 RON super once and the car wasn't happy. But then again I've had other cars that didn't like this brand of fuel.

andycupra · Jan 4, 2008

just to note, the extra expense per tank depenends on what fuel you use as a comparison.
based on a tank being 57 litres, (thats certainly what goes in my MK1 tank if i fill up shortly after the warning light comes on).

V power is 7p per litre more than shell standard unleaded. = £3.99 extra a tank
Tescos super is 4 pense per litre more, so thats £2.28 more (99ron)
Sainburys, 2 pence more so thats £1.14 (97ron)

or if you live in an area like i do, there is 2p per litre difference for all stations whether i turn right out my drive or left...

chrisboyle999 · Jan 4, 2008

ive posted this a few times in fuel related threads but for those that havent seen it before;

'Super Fuels
Many of the large petrol companies have launched 'super fuels' - petrols and diesels that have a higher research octane level. These fuels are said to increase power in many vehicles, deliver less pollution than regular fuels and help to maintain a cleaner engine. Amongst these 'super fuels' are Tesco's Super Unleaded 99 Octane petrol, supplied by Greenergy, now sold at many stations across the UK and also BP's Ultimate 102 Unleaded which is currently the most advanced, high-performance petrol you can buy on UK forecourts.

Using Super Fuels;
Some have commented that using higher octane fuel than your engine requires actually gives no benefit and may be a waste of money. This is because virtually NO engines require 98 RON over 95, and the market for 'super' fuels seems to be based on people's misunderstanding of octane ratings and the placebo effect of filling up with 'more powerful' fuel - making motorists think their engine is running better in some way.

What do the fuel companies say then, to justify the "increased power" claims for the super grade fuels? Some companies say that while all fuels contain cleaning additives, 'super' fuels contain more or better detergents to keep the injectors cleaner than standard fuel. Others say the fuel is a few percent denser which gives slightly more power per litre. These benefits may be marginal though in comparison to the extra cost involved so it is worth ensuring that your engine will actually benefit before filling up.

Some engines actually do need higher octane fuel, such as race engines with very high compression and some turbocharged engines. Also, a few vehicles can sense knock and adjust their engine tuning to take advantage of higher grade fuels. This ability is apparently widespread amongst German performance cars using Bosch / Siemens electronic engine controls.'

this last paragraph is why tfsi owners are recommended to use higher ron fuel, and the detergents wont do any harm either.

Chris B · Jan 5, 2008

Using a lower octane fuel in the FSI/TFSI can make the engine vulnerable to what is called pre-detonation (knocking/pinging).

The FSI/TFSI engine does have sensors built in that can detect any pre-detonation and as a result it will change the timing to prevent it. You can safely use petrol with a lower octane rating than what has been recommended by the manufacturer, but will suffer the consequence of reduced power and efficiency.

At present there is not a fuel in the UK that is widely available with a high enough octane rating for the FSI/TFSI unit to perform at its full potential (V-Power / BP Ultimate etc still does not have a high enough octane rating to acheive this) as a result we are no longer allowed to refer to it as the TFSI in the UK and have to refer to it as the TSI.

A few of you may have noticed the TFSI badging has now been dropped on the exterior of the FR and the lettering TFSI is now only present on the engine cover safely hidden away from view. This has been the reasoning behind it all.

YOUR WARRANTY WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY USING A LOWER OCTANE FUEL THAN WHAT IS RECOMMENDED. THEY REALISE VARIOUS FILLING STATIONS DON'T ALWAYS OFFER THE HIGHER OCTANE FUELS AND DON'T EXACTLY EXPECT YOU TO CARRY AROUND A CAN IN THE BACK OF YOUR BOOT FULL OF OPTIMAX.

RCS2K4 · Jan 5, 2008

Chris B said:
At present there is not a fuel in the UK that is widely available with a high enough octane rating for the FSI/TFSI unit to perform at its full potential (V-Power / BP Ultimate etc still does not have a high enough octane rating to acheive this) as a result we are no longer allowed to refer to it as the TFSI in the UK and have to refer to it as the TSI.

A few of you may have noticed the TFSI badging has now been dropped on the exterior of the FR and the lettering TFSI is now only present on the engine cover safely hidden away from view. This has been the reasoning behind it all

You can't be serious? What grade of fuel are they looking for then, race grade fuel @ 105 octaine or something?

Rampage · Jan 6, 2008

Chris B said:
A few of you may have noticed the TFSI badging has now been dropped on the exterior of the FR and the lettering TFSI is now only present on the engine cover safely hidden away from view. This has been the reasoning behind it all.

I've just looked in the latest catalog and the previous one, and your right they are listed as TSI!

Where did you find out this information?

Click to expand...

Noel<>leoN · Jan 7, 2008

I've got a petrol FR. I had issues with my emissions warning light coming on and was told by a dealer (who shall remain nameless) that it was because I was using 95 RON fuel.

While Seat's customer services were polite but useless when asked to confirm I could use 95 RON fuel (weeks afterwards they rang me back to tell me to read the manual.... which I had pointed out to them at the beginning when asking whether to believe that or the dealer).

Anyway, the problem turned out to be a duff exhaust pipe with a partial blockage instead (this took 6 trips in as many weeks to the dealer to establish).

95 RON works fine and I don't have to worry about whether my work will let me claim the fuel for work trips

I posted about this problem before and there was some guy in South America who has run his FR on 95 RON since he got it 'cos he has no access to 98RON, and his car is fine.

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FR TFSI on regular unleaded warranty question

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