Buying a Leon estate - advice please

[BigJase88]

I can see the attraction, of a simple buy online process, and I guess you have 7 days to test and reject if you want to.

They are generally cheaper, but you only get 3 months warranty, whereas Seat Dealer approved cars get 24 month warranty and breakdown.

I have never personally seen 24 month offered unless it's a new thing.

Last time i bought Seat Approved used the warranty was 12 months. Also worth noting it was an aftermarket warranty which is not the same as the 3 year manufacturers warranty you get with say a new vehicle.

Also from experience these warranties may as well be written on the back of a fag packet as the list of exceptions is humongous and they love to wriggle out of them.

 

[BigJase88]

Just a comment about the 1.5TSI engines, a friend of my wife has a 2018 VW Golf with the lower powered 1.5TSI 130PS and manual gearbox, her husband is a demanding guy as far as cars go and he reckons that that engine in his wife's car does not suffer at all, it was bought 2nd hand Motobility hand back I think. My mate thro West had a 2018 VW T-Roc 1.5TSI 150PS again with a manual gearbox, and he never had any issues with this kangerooing, I checked the S/W issue at one point, and it did not look like it had been updated since it left the factory - based on the various S/W issues that were are listed on some, maybe even this forum - although he seemed to have a habit of getting it serviced outside the VW Group service loop! He traded that one in for a 2019 DSG one as his wife had maybe knee "trouble" and no obvious issues with that next one, though if I'm correct, DSG masks these engine running issues.

I'm just posting this to point out that some people seem to be avoiding these much talked about 1.5TSI issues, I'd be quite annoyed if I ended up with one that kangerooed though! I thought that VW Group talked these issues away - but maybe the engines were not listening.

I thought that Cinch were heading for big doo doo due to the market not responding fully to this change in car buying, though I might be wrong and it is another same type of operation that is heading for trouble.

The main dealer car sales industry has changed a lot away from just new sales, approved used cars and servicing, to new sales, car auctions, online used car providers, approved used cars and servicing so that they totally control the stock and pricing of their marques until the unit value is next to nothing - which is fair enough.

It is so painless. I will probably buy my next car through them too.

Cars are prepared and the imperfections are shown.

No slimey salesmen, no bargaining to get the wheels refurbed. None of that carry on.

They are owned by BCA which also own we buy any car so I doubt they will be going upside down anytime soon.

I had the misfortune of owning a 1.5TSI kangaroo edition.

Test drove the 1.4 TSI 125 in 2018 and ordered one. I fell for the sales pitch.

Good news sir same price however your car will have the newer 1.5 tsi 130. 5 more bhp and better fuel economy.

I thought brilliant what a deal... how wrong i was. Car was almost undriveable from cold. There was still no "software" update when I had enough and traded it in.

They have since already changed that engine code of mine out for a revised one. So i can only suspect it was a lemon engine

 

[Crossthreaded]

Also consider a Honda Civic Tourer estate, quite a bit bigger and cheaper than a Leon ST, also the petrol 1.8 is more reliable. Available in auto or manual.

Absolutely. A car I nearly bought new for myself back in 2016 when I bought the Ibiza estate instead because we could not find a comfortable driving position for my "petit" Mrs. It's a car and engine - the 1.8 i-VTEC that I think very highly of but I'm not finding many for sale with a manual gearbox or reasonably low mileage.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Just a comment about the 1.5TSI engines, a friend of my wife has a 2018 VW Golf with the lower powered 1.5TSI 130PS and manual gearbox, her husband is a demanding guy as far as cars go and he reckons that that engine in his wife's car does not suffer at all, it was bought 2nd hand Motobility hand back I think. My mate thro West had a 2018 VW T-Roc 1.5TSI 150PS again with a manual gearbox, and he never had any issues with this kangerooing, I checked the S/W issue at one point, and it did not look like it had been updated since it left the factory - based on the various S/W issues that were are listed on some, maybe even this forum - although he seemed to have a habit of getting it serviced outside the VW Group service loop! He traded that one in for a 2019 DSG one as his wife had maybe knee "trouble" and no obvious issues with that next one, though if I'm correct, DSG masks these engine running issues.

I'm just posting this to point out that some people seem to be avoiding these much talked about 1.5TSI issues, I'd be quite annoyed if I ended up with one that kangerooed though! I thought that VW Group talked these issues away - but maybe the engines were not listening.

I thought that Cinch were heading for big doo doo due to the market not responding fully to this change in car buying, though I might be wrong and it is another same type of operation that is heading for trouble.

The main dealer car sales industry has changed a lot away from just new sales, approved used cars and servicing, to new sales, car auctions, online used car providers, approved used cars and servicing so that they totally control the stock and pricing of their marques until the unit value is next to nothing - which is fair enough.

Thanks for that RUM. I value your opinion greatly and it's very interesting to hear that about the 1.5 engine. Seems to be a bit of a lottery doesn't it? and if you got a "jumpy" one you'd be really kicking yourself.

I'm leery of buying from these on line sellers like the one mentioned above. I actually like negotiating with car salesmen, having done car sales for a few years myself I'm usually at least one jump ahead of them, especially the less experienced ones. It can make for an amusing half hour or so. Peter Howard Johnston is actively pursuing finding one for us so between inquiries I'm making myself and his efforts I'm sure we'll turn something up soon.

The pressure is off slightly because it looks like the Astra, after a few "tweeks", has passed it's MOT again which gives us a bit more slack to go looking. Unfortunately his Mrs's Jazz was vandalized at the weekend by a drunk who kicked in the O/S doors - made a "proper" job of it, but luckily my son and his neighbour managed to restrain the very drunk perpetrator until the police arrived. The car, an 08 plate, is in quite a mess so I'm guessing the insurance will write it off. Then, oh joy, I suppose we'll be looking for a replacement for it! Mind you she could always use the Astra for a while after my boy gets his new car.

 

[BigJase88]

Thanks for that RUM. I value your opinion greatly and it's very interesting to hear that about the 1.5 engine. Seems to be a bit of a lottery doesn't it? and if you got a "jumpy" one you'd be really kicking yourself.

I'm leery of buying from these on line sellers like the one mentioned above. I actually like negotiating with car salesmen, having done car sales for a few years myself I'm usually at least one jump ahead of them, especially the less experienced ones. It can make for an amusing half hour or so. Peter Howard Johnston is actively pursuing finding one for us so between inquiries I'm making myself and his efforts I'm sure we'll turn something up soon.

The pressure is off slightly because it looks like the Astra, after a few "tweeks", has passed it's MOT again which gives us a bit more slack to go looking. Unfortunately his Mrs's Jazz was vandalized at the weekend by a drunk who kicked in the O/S doors - made a "proper" job of it, but luckily my son and his neighbour managed to restrain the very drunk perpetrator until the police arrived. The car, an 08 plate, is in quite a mess so I'm guessing the insurance will write it off. Then, oh joy, I suppose we'll be looking for a replacement for it! Mind you she could always use the Astra for a while after my boy gets his new car.

I suppose your right it is quite funny listening to the sales pitch.

They always make out that the car they are selling is the best you could ever hope to find

Suppose if you get suckered into it you would believe your Lada was a Lamborghini by the end of it

 

[Crossthreaded]

Mind you, I'm not slagging off salesmen in general. Having tried my hand at it for several years I can tell you it's a dog eat dog environment, especially in the large dealerships - meet your targets or get out the door son!

 

[Mr Pig]

Including my father-in-law we have six Seats in the family and have had two Leon Estates.

Yes, the estate takes a full-sized spare. The hatch does not. Seat do not supply a jack kit for the chassis but Skoda do. The part number is: 5E0093860 Other kits will work but this one has a better jack and more space for other items.

Best engine is the 150 hp 1.4 Act. Smooth, very wide power band, quick when you want it to be but delivers close to 50mpg on mixed driving. Lovely engine.

1.0 three-cylinder is a nice engine which is much smoother and more powerful than you'd think but too small for the Leon estate. 1.6 TDI is also too gutless although if you don't drive fast it's ok and you'll struggle to get less than 54mpg, nearly 60 on a run. 2.0TDI drops that to about 54mpg at best but although it is more powerful, the power band is so narrow it just isn't a lot of fun. 1.5TSI issues are exaggerated I think but the 1.4 is slightly better anyway.

Best trim is SE Technology. SE trim is a big step up over S but FR doesn't add that much over SE. Most cars have the tech-pack, don't even consider one without it.

Best wheel size is 17''. 18'' is too crashy on potholes and 17'' offers a worthwhile tightening of the handling over 16''. FR suspension does offer sharper handling over the S/SE but the softer set-up is the best compromise, especially is a lot of town driving is involved. FR on 18'' is not terrible but more tiring.

Pre-facelift is better than the facelift. Nothing of substance is changed, it's largely cosmetic and cost cutting . Headlights are slightly better, that's it. Bigger touchscreen is a con as the infotainment system is exactly the same, you just lose the very useful direct access buttons while the slightly bigger screen makes no difference. Everything else is the same or worse.

I'm sure your son will enjoy the Leon estate, they are great cars. Much better than an Astra, better than an Insignia in fact. Also much better than the Ibiza, either the old or the current one. Pretty much as good as a Golf but cheaper.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Including my father-in-law we have six Seats in the family and have had two Leon Estates.

Yes, the estate takes a full-sized spare. The hatch does not. Seat do not supply a jack kit for the chassis but Skoda do. The part number is: 5E0093860 Other kits will work but this one has a better jack and more space for other items.

Best engine is the 150 hp 1.4 Act. Smooth, very wide power band, quick when you want it to be but delivers close to 50mpg on mixed driving. Lovely engine.

1.0 three-cylinder is a nice engine which is much smoother and more powerful than you'd think but too small for the Leon estate. 1.6 TDI is also too gutless although if you don't drive fast it's ok and you'll struggle to get less than 54mpg, nearly 60 on a run. 2.0TDI drops that to about 54mpg at best but although it is more powerful, the power band is so narrow it just isn't a lot of fun. 1.5TSI issues are exaggerated I think but the 1.4 is slightly better anyway.

Best trim is SE Technology. SE trim is a big step up over S but FR doesn't add that much over SE. Most cars have the tech-pack, don't even consider one without it.

Best wheel size is 17''. 18'' is too crashy on potholes and 17'' offers a worthwhile tightening of the handling over 16''. FR suspension does offer sharper handling over the S/SE but the softer set-up is the best compromise, especially is a lot of town driving is involved. FR on 18'' is not terrible but more tiring.

Pre-facelift is better than the facelift. Nothing of substance is changed, it's largely cosmetic and cost cutting . Headlights are slightly better, that's it. Bigger touchscreen is a con as the infotainment system is exactly the same, you just lose the very useful direct access buttons while the slightly bigger screen makes no difference. Everything else is the same or worse.

I'm sure your son will enjoy the Leon estate, they are great cars. Much better than an Astra, better than an Insignia in fact. Also much better than the Ibiza, either the old or the current one. Pretty much as good as a Golf but cheaper.

Wow. Fantastic post, thank you so very much. Tells me just about everything I need to know!

 

[Mr Pig]

Wow. Fantastic post, thank you so very much. Tells me just about everything I need to know!

Don't worry about the DPF by the way. As long as you're not doing crazy short journeys all the time it'll be fine., I'd still take the 1.4 petrol. Almost as good economy and much nicer to drive but if he wants the best economy he can get the 1.6 TDI is very good. I wouldn't bother with the Ecomotive though as it's only fractionally better than the standard 1.6 TDI.

 

[Yern]

I thought that Cinch were heading for big doo doo due to the market not responding fully to this change in car buying, though I might be wrong and it is another same type of operation that is heading for trouble.

The operation you may be referring to was Cazoo? - "Cazoo axes jobs and slashes sales targets as founder Alex Chesterman quits as CEO"

See also - https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/pub...ar-sites-could-close-as-cuts-laid-bare/277928

 

[spembo]

I‘ve had an Ateca for 3.5 years with a 1.5 150. Did have kangaroo effect at the start, but was resolved via a recall. Don’t have any grumbles with engine performance, other than I wish mpg was better, although SUV’s always going be worse. Do have a new Leon Estate 150 eTSI on order.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Don't worry about the DPF by the way. As long as you're not doing crazy short journeys all the time it'll be fine., I'd still take the 1.4 petrol. Almost as good economy and much nicer to drive but if he wants the best economy he can get the 1.6 TDI is very good. I wouldn't bother with the Ecomotive though as it's only fractionally better than the standard 1.6 TDI.

Thanks. Decided don't want a diesel anyway. Although the direct Injection petrol engines are a more complicated barrel of fish when compared to the good old port injected engines, I'd still rather be working on a petrol. Anyway I'm now getting to grips quite nicely with the EA211 3 cylinder in mine and the 4 cylinder, being a modular design, is very similar. Being a used purchase I wouldn't be surprised if it could do with a cam belt and I'm guessing it'll be the same set of locking tools as my little 3 cylinder uses? The intention is to keep both cars until "beyond economic repair" so with two of them I think I can justify buying the tools and doing subsequent belt changes on both vehicles myself.

 

[RUM4MO]

I think that there is a bit more to getting the timing correct on the ACT engines, someone either on this forum or another posted a YouTube video roughly covering that, so from that I gathered that the timing kit was way beyond the wallet or justification of a DIYer. Also the cost is quite "chunky" probably due to this.
The YouTube for the timing etc is in the thread covering "changing the timing belt" in this section - https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/threads/1-4-ecotsi-150bhp-cambelt.471811/

Edit:- maybe not the best place to stuff this in, but anyway, for folks that work on their EA211 family of engines, here is a YouTube video that covers how the boot/contact is connected to the coil and also how to get stuck ones out using compressed air, not my finding, but someone else's finding on a Polo forum -

 

[Crossthreaded]

Hmm. So I need to do a bit of research into the ACT timing? Wonder if I can get past Paul at the garage and have a word with someone at the "coal face"?

That compressed air method for ejecting the boot if it separates from the coil is exactly how I've been told to do it. My understanding is that the boot grips the plug ceramic and blowing the air down the middle not only creates pressure to blow the boot out of the hole but also gets air between the boot and plug ceramic which breaks it's hold.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Rum, Thank you sooo much for linking to the video about the ACT timing. Obviously the cost of the monitoring fixtures for the cams and associated software makes DIY impractical so we'll be looking for the 125 hp, non ACT version which the Haynes manual gives a very detailed account of how to use the physical tools to do the job. It should be cheaper to insure too and I think the performance will be adequate for what he needs.

 

[Mr Pig]

I wouldn't worry about getting the spark plug boots off, it's not that hard. The mistake people seem to be making is trying to yank them out quickly. That doesn't work but if you pull them up a little and just hold the pressure you'll feel them creeping free. Gentle an slow and they release no problem.

The direct injection is a worry. The accepted wisdom is that the inlet and the backs of the valves will get mucked up and need cleaning eventually. When I don't know. My car is at about 55k I think and so far it seems fine but I'm assuming I'll have to deal with this one day.

 

[RUM4MO]

I think that paying attention to the fact that VW Group show a tube of "stuff" in the parts listing and applying something like that, will avoid the boot gripping too much in the first place. I've changed quite a lot of spark plugs on VW Group engines that have these long tubes/boots fixed to the COP, and so far, no issues.

The concern about coking/chocking on the unlet tract tends to worry most people that look after their own cars, but in reality, if you believe what is written on forums, this issue while possible is being over exaggerated, with the R8's naturally aspirated engine suffering most, which makes a lot of sense as a) it is not being helped by a turbo/supercharger and b) owners of them probably like to have max original power available always throughout its life - I'll still keep you company worrying about this though.

I'm sure that I read somewhere that because walnut shells is used to clean them up, that is good as any small bits ending up inside the engine, or entering the engine on initial start up, will be crushed, burned and pass through the engine - so "no problem".

I'm almost getting excited about when I eventually remove the inlet manifold on my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 100PS,to check the fuel rail securing bolts - just to see how things are in that area, and take pictures of the inlet port. A job for this summer - maybe, maybe early summer as I should remove the AC condenser and see if I can find any tracts of leaks(oil), and sort the AC leak out at the same time, as well changing the coolant from G13 to G12evo. I've talked the talk, now to walk the walk.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Towards the end of that vidio you linked to Rum - the one about using the computer tool to set up the 1.4 ACT - he mentions during his "outro" that these engines are very sensitive to timing and if not set up very precisely they will experience starting problems and running problems including "juddering". Can anyone tell me if the drivability problems people talk about with the 1.5 are experienced only with the ACT engines or do the lesser 130 hp - so non ACT? - engines experience it too.

I ask because just tonight I've become aware of a 2019 69 plate 1.5 TSI EVO SE Dynamic 130hp within easy viewing distance. I'm assuming that the 130 is not ACT? However the fact it's the 1.5 makes me nervous though. Thoughts anyone?

 

[BigJase88]

Towards the end of that vidio you linked to Rum - the one about using the computer tool to set up the 1.4 ACT - he mentions during his "outro" that these engines are very sensitive to timing and if not set up very precisely they will experience starting problems and running problems including "juddering". Can anyone tell me if the drivability problems people talk about with the 1.5 are experienced only with the ACT engines or do the lesser 130 hp - so non ACT? - engines experience it too.

I ask because just tonight I've become aware of a 2019 69 plate 1.5 TSI EVO SE Dynamic 130hp within easy viewing distance. I'm assuming that the 130 is not ACT? However the fact it's the 1.5 makes me nervous though. Thoughts anyone?

130bhp 1.5TSI is also ACT

The original 1.5tsi 130 that came out on a 68 plate was engine code DACA this got swiftly replaced by a newer engine code i cannot remember right now that code of engine.

The 130 manuals were the worst for this stutter

69 plate may be the revised 130 engine

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/new-cars/2019-07/no-end-in-sight-for-volkswagen-15-tsi-engine-problems/

Plenty of info here

Maybe an end in sight for Kangaroo jerking...

Ok, so the title is misleading - let the Kangeroos have their fun I say! Anyway, I paid for an hour access to Erwin this morning and came across the Technical Service Bulletin section. There is a Service Bulletin with a release date of 11/10/19 called: 2470: Jerking while warming up when...

www.seatcupra.net

 

[Crossthreaded]

Ok folks, just came across this:

I know I'm an "old fart" but what do they think they are doing with stuff like this on a standard road going engine? and how many workshops are going to be able to afford it or have the personnel who can cope with it? also how long might this procedure potentially take if everything doesn't go exactly according to plan - as is likely to happen as the engine ages.
I definitely won't be buying a 1.5! Unfortunately most I've found for sale so far are 1.5 so it's likely my boy is going to end up with some other manufacturer's product, Maybe a Ceed Sportwagen, or Fiat Tipo t-jet estate. The Fiat engine is one I know well and like but I need to do more research on the Kia. Thank goodness the Astra has passed it's MOT so we've got some leeway regarding time to look for his new car.
I used to be pretty enthusiastic about VAG stuff but, just of late, I'm falling out of love with them.