For the calm of mind stock is best. But it ain't the funniestYep. But for anything except the standard JB1 in map 1, you need to be interested in reading up and do quite some DIY before you get good results. Best is stock
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Cupra 280 - Getting ready to tune, your thoughts?
- Thread starter PCJunky
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JB4 is more complicated, need to splice into one of the cables, so no longer plug and play. The capabilities also mean more choices to make and gains are small if you aren't trying to maximise gains from other hardware. As far as I understood.
Isn't it just posy-tap? Same type of adaptor you use for additional headlights?
If you really want "tune and forget" and really don't have the interest in optimising the car. I'd go with jb1/jb4 if warrenty is of concern. If not pretty much any canned tune available..
Mixed feelings really, at one side I would say that tapping into a wire and the need to read up and understand what you're reading is a significant bigger barrier to JB4 compared to JB1 that is more true plug and play with now only three connectors to plug into. On the other hand, if you're tampering with an engine, you'd better be very knowledgeable if you are going to call it optimisation. Even with JB1 one should do logging to be sure it runs all well. Things a regular consumer won't do with a canned tune.
From my perspective, the engine is already optimised out of factory, but for a diverse set of priorities. Tuning is about moving these priorities about, and true optimisation is about improving the compromise. But most tuning topics are about 'MOAR POWER' and short term $$ - and basically a gamble that it doesn't break when the car is in one's hands.
I like the JB1 because it moves within the original safety parameters and that despite the simple plug and play, I can control boost and fuelling and make a for me 'optimised' compromise that will be more conservative than anything else, but more fun for my driving. I've done different kinds of remaps on other cars before including ones that allowed me access to almost all engine parameters. And the MQB has lots of them. Few people grasp all of them, let alone how they all influence each other, short and long term. And most people haven't got a clue if a tuner could possibly have a clue. So yes, your point about a well tested tune is important.
For me, simple, adjustable and relative conservative power is more attractive to me.
With the above mindset, I should probably stop already with just the EU6 downpipe. That is really an optimisation with much improved spool, freeer revving on top, and it thermally relieves the turbo meaning it's *more* reliable, and it has an approval so legally should not affect warranty. But it cost more than a tune and gains on paper are small... so almost nobody does only that.
Stating the above not because I think you don't know what you're doing @Raven, but just to discuss so that others might perhaps find this discussion interesting.
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Deleted member 103408
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I feel the same way as to the all round capabilities. Simply put it's a great car and a stage 1 file only emphasize it..
Seems like a good plan with intention to buy it following the lease period - the only problem will be that there will probably be a new Cupra out at that time. Given the progress from mk2 to mk3 imagine how mk4 will be
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I am new to all this upgrading. From my non technical perspective i chose the Revo Stage 1 for a couple reasons. Much nicer power over the range (yes there are some big numbers but day to day driving you have power at all rev levels). Generally good feedback from forums that I read and lastly the SPS Switch which allows you to run in Stock and two other modes. I have had it for a couple months now and in my personal view this has turned a very good car into a great car. With regards to the new Cupra from what i have seen it is now the same as the Golf R (300 BHP with 4wd) but looking at the original 280 vs Golf R autocar test the 280 was still a better car in the dry on the track so maybe you can save some money and buy a year old 290 with upgraded engine.
I've run Revo on a couple of cars in the past and it is a great product. I took one car after some other mods to be custom mapped expecting to move off Revo and onto AMD's own but on the day they said they could move the peak torque around the rev range and bring it in earlier, but not really improve on the Revo (on a PD150 SEAT diesel) numbers. Very honest of them as I was in their hands, but also very good for Revo! I stayed with Revo and treated the car to poly bushes instead!
Tuning a FI gasoline is quite different to a diesel, especially going beyond stage 1. No variable valve timing, ignition timing and associated knock or risks with running lean on a diesel...
In many ways I agree with you and that a tuning will narrow down safety margins are beyond discussing.
However I believe that one crucial point is missing - all vag tuners across the globe claims that the internals of the Cupra, golf r, s3 etc. engine is identical.
As such the baseline for comparison is not 280/290 hp but 310 hp in the S3. The same goes for torque, the S3 (and the R) running 380 nm of the production line. On top of that it is more or less a public secrecy these days that you get more of everything from your vag engine than claimed - power as well as pollution...
Now if we consider the above the gain compared to "stock" is around 20%. That is defiantly not unique - it is more or less quite an average gain from a stage 1 map. However given the output baseline of the engine the increase feels everything but average..
That does still not change the fact that the components will be exposed to increased stress levels when using that extra power, but having run the Revo map for 3 weeks now I must admit that I am not sure that the combined stress on the engine increases with 20% simply do to the level of performance now available. Before the map I used the full rev range almost daily - now I almost never do it on the daily commute simply because there is no room for it. Most of the time it does not go beyond 3.5k rpm and the boost is seldom above 1 bar (corresponding to max boost as stock). The combined effect (for me anyway) is that the engine now spends more time cruising and less time working it's a.. off.
Combine the above with an increased frequency of oil changes and mechanical empathy and I hardly doubt that the risk of an engine failure is higher than stock. Given the choice between an often serviced and well taken cared of tuned Cupra and a stock that had followed the service intervals, I know which one I would buy..
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The Revo torque is reasonable. But I've seen APR tuned with 50% more torque early in the rev range. If you would use that on a regular basis...
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I could not agree more - the stress level on the engine being one area of concern but the main concern for me would be the dsg - remap of the TCU or not..
I like the idea of the decreased stress on the Turbo associated with the reduce in back pressure of a more free flowing down pipe and decreased heat of a bigger intercooler/better flow of an new induction. But to be honest I do not think I will be going stage II - at least not on a standard file - simply down to the fact that I do not wish to expose the drivetrain to more torque than the 465 nm it is pushing now.. The hardware changes of a stage II would for me as such not be for increased power levels but for the benefit of the engine and the drivability..
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More torque puts more strain (force) on almost every single component from the head (heat+pressure) to pistons, controls, crankshaft, all their bearings, clutch, gearbox shafts and gears, turbo rpm and heat (early on), pressure on the piping (torque = more boost), dumpvalves, headbolts, etc. you get the picture. And only one has to fail to call your cards. Either pay up (big) and do more upgrades, or completely fall out of love and move the car on never to be heard of again. Yeah, most people don't tell everybody on a forum they lost their 'bet'...
Rant over
Rant over
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Deleted member 103408
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More torque puts more strain (force) on almost every single component from the head (heat+pressure) to pistons, controls, crankshaft, all their bearings, clutch, gearbox shafts and gears, turbo rpm and heat (early on), pressure on the piping (torque = more boost), dumpvalves, headbolts, etc. you get the picture. And only one has to fail to call your cards. Either pay up (big) and do more upgrades, or completely fall out of love and move the car on never to be heard of again. Yeah, most people don't tell everybody on a forum they lost their 'bet'...
Rant over
For Rant I would read more information for owners to make an informed call on what is possible and relative cost's/issues.
As stated by Perfect_g I would stress two points. Firstly it is very very important to keep the service schedule on track (and i was told oil change at every 5k instead of 10k). There was a very good article on this forum about why manufacturers build cars like they do (because people do not fully service them when they should so they have to build in safety tolerance) as well as other issues. So if you are going to upgrade you need to keep your car in good condition and using the correct fuel for the settings you have (more on revo site if you are interested).
Secondly as alluded to in Perfect-g item it is also about how you drive the car, if you are a boy racer with your foot on the floor all the time (please get bigger breaks) vs old geezer like me who likes the mid range power when overtaking this has very different wear and tear on all the components. but you points are fair and help people understand what is involved.
I would also point out to people that if you have other mods to your car they may impact the mapping process (for example my original VWR R600 Air Box did not work well on my car with the Revo software) so make sure you talk to the company in advance so you dont buy stuff you are going to have to sell again later. I also went for the switch with REVO so that i can (and do) run in stock mode can change with (not cheep) a simple switch to one of two sports modes (for differing types of fuel/conditions) plus (and i liked this one) the ability to turn on anti theft mode which allows you to start the car but it turns off again.
Not married to Revo all the big companies offer differing maps but for what i wanted out of the upgrade i am happy with the cost and am learning a lot about how the car works. I think if you are serious about doing these upgrades do lots of research to understand what is involved and please make sure you tell your insurance company so your are covered.
Indeed, just want to give some balance in the discussion. I have been at work at the engineering design end and manufacturers do lots of testing to know what is a good level. But even then, even for the professionals it's not clear cut where the limit goes. Yes there are margins, but in engineering you need margins. So basically, we privately also tune our cars, most of the time it goes well but I also know a few that have regretted going too far nevertheless.
There are also some misunderstandings. Like that an oil temperature of 115C is worse than 102. Or that revving out the engine regularly is bad, and that just enjoying the torque in daily driving is harmless. Not necessarily so...
Now I'm gonna enjoy the weekend, cheers
There are also some misunderstandings. Like that an oil temperature of 115C is worse than 102. Or that revving out the engine regularly is bad, and that just enjoying the torque in daily driving is harmless. Not necessarily so...
Now I'm gonna enjoy the weekend, cheers
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I have covered 150k miles on remap'ed cars without any engine issues. My Leon FR PD150 was bought from new by us, Revo applied at 5k miles and no major faults upto when I sold it 6 years later with 98k miles on it. However, it did like to eat a clutch or two! The first OEM was replaced at about 25k miles, the 2nd a paddle plate at 45k miles (if memory serves) and the final one (Sachs 400ft/lb rated complete kit) lasted without any signs of issue for the remainder and beyond (but it cost £750 in parts alone). My point is that you will get some issues when power increases are just chucked in, but you have to accept that as you mod, you are likely to expose another weak link in the chain and have to mod that, and then another, and another depending upon how much additional power you chase - but then we tend to accept that and it becomes part of the game!
Mod'd or not, just enjoy it!!
Mod'd or not, just enjoy it!!
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